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Feds looks at obstruction in this case. it's clear his former wingman is singing. it's clear witnesses with talking. what's his level of legal exposure right about now? >> well, we knew after the guilty plea of joel greenberg, the man you refer to as his wingman, his lawyer said he was cooperating and he was cooperating about matt gaetz. it seems that someone like joel greenberg is in a position to know about all of the criminal activity that matt gaetz may have been involved with in regards to sex trafficking. this newest wrinkle is about obstruction of justice. despite what you sometimes hea...

Statements to congress. it's basically perjury. that's a substantive crime, not just a mere process crime. and as you were saying, jim, it's a pr campaign here. the trump people want to spin that as oh, there's no real substantive crimes going on here. all these process crimes. but you know, when you look at this investigation, the amount of false statement convictions is just unbelievable. i mean, it permeates the entire situation here. and that says a lot about what's going on and also raises the question of what is it they're all so desperately trying to hide at this point. >> ron, the lyin...

By the base. you hear them repeated from -- i heard senator ron johnson on our air the other day calling the process a crime. >> yeah. i was going to say, where that has had success is in kind of intimidating almost any voice in the republican party from acknowledging the legitimate questions and issues that the mueller investigation have raised. but in another sense, we just had a real world test of a messaging strategy, and for that matter, a governing strategy that has been aimed almost entirely at the base. and that was the midterm election where republicans lost the popular vote by a la...

Make both of you? >> the hacking of my phone played a major role in what happened to jamal. i'm really sorry to say that. we were trying to teach people about human rights, about freedom of speech. that's it. this is the only crime that we have committed. >> nina dos santos, cnn, london. >> thanks to nina for that exclusive reporting. saudi officials have not responded to cnn's request for comment regarding omar abdulazeez's allegations. the messages between him and khashoggi. the israeli company behind the spyware says its technology is licensed for the sole use of governments and law enforce...

The wheels of government will come to a halt while the nation honors the late 41st president. the special counsel investigation, however, does not take holidays. it moves on. so much to talk about, particularly after developments last week. senior political analyst for cnn ron brownstein, cnn legal analyst shan wu. if i could begin with you, shan. this is as much a public messaging campaign as it is a legal one because with each development, you have the president and his allies attacking the substance of it. shan, they are calling what cohen pled guilty to simply a process crime, lying to the...