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Saying that they made the decision, going in, that they couldn't charge the president with a crime because it would be unconstitutional. it does seem when you read the report and this has sort of mystified a lot of people, it seems like they made the decision at the end, they gathered all the evidence, now can we say whether or not any of this evidence constitutes obstruction of justice on the part of the president, i guess we can't so therefore we can't decide whether it did. it seems that process is not the way it worked based on what he said today. that was their going in proposition, they ...

We know, that it may be a subpoena fight involving at least somebody in the white house where there is an important issue that's being challenged. so, for example, the presence of michael drieben who is a constitutional lawyer. came to the special counsel's office from the solicitor general's office. nonpartisan career justice department, attention to legal detail. his presence, if those two things go to together, as evan reported, would indicate that maybe this -- the issue they are litigating is a matter of constitutional significance. so that could be potentially a subpoena to the president...

Order to the white house where maybe they are litigating some issue of executive privilege or something along those lines. >> the thing that's interesting, there have been no leaks from the special counsel's team but a ton of leaks from the president's legal team. more than leaks. the the president's legal team often tells us what it's doing in terms of the special counsel's office which leads me to believe or wonder if this does have to do directly with the president or the white house, wouldn't it have leaked? >> no. because grand jury secrecy can be held in contempt. so grand jury rules are...

Extra measures. >> so any sense to you that this might have something to do with the white house or national security issue? >> well, it's hard to say. because it's grand jury and because our reporting is that it's related to the special counsel's investigation, i am inclined to think, based on what we know, that it may be a subpoena fight involving at least somebody in the white house where there is an important issue that's being challenged. so, for example, the presence of michael drieben who is a constitutional lawyer, came to the special counsel's office from the solicitor general's offic...

The legal team tells us what it's doing in terms of the special counsel's office which leads me to believe or wonder if this does have to do directly with the president or the white house. wouldn't it have leaked? >> no. because grand jury secrecy can be held in contempt. so grand jury rules are so severe that if somebody, no lawyer who wants to continue to practice law is going to leak information, no matter how sort of publicly interesting this case is. they are not going to leak information regarding the grand jury. >> so drieben, michael, the one tip we got. he was seen in and around. is t...