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Fact, an "nbc nightly news," they reported that over the next two years, a thousand new wells could be drilled in eastern ohio, adding tens of thousand was of new jobs there. so how might we balance these concerns, environmental and the economic ones? >> well, this takes planning and thoughtful planning. my argument is natural gas could be the so-called bridge fuel to take us from fossil fuels to a completely renewable future whereas mining coal and burning coal is not forward thinking. i know many people are employed in those industries. but we're talking about -- we're not talking about espe...

Energy, and even in the middle of a crisis like this, and this is a crisis, you have to remember we get our energy from somewhere. we're ranting and raving for a long time about the gulf oil spill and how much damage that was doing. think about how many people die mining coal every year. you know, as long as we're looking for energy we're going to have to take some risks. what we're seeing now is very, very bad and very frightening to me in many ways, but the argument about whether we should have nuclear power is not so simple based on this one accident or any other accident. back to the quest...

Long time about the gulf oil spill and how much damage that was doing. think about how many people die mining coal every year. you know, as long as we're looking for energy we're going to have to take some risks. what we're seeing now is very, very bad and very frightening to me in many ways, but the argument about whether we should have nuclear power is not so simple based on this one accident or any other accident. back to the question, this is an unprecedented situation. it makes -- one of the things that i think happens here is that the system because of the earthquake and the tsunami, and...

It wasn't designed, obviously, to withstand the tsunami. and the problem with this argument is that you go on and on with things. what if 9/11 plane, we talked about this a lot after 2001, was flown into a nuclear reactor. what if a tsunami were to strike the pacific northwest or california with those plants and could do the same thing here. every time you make those kind of decisions, you make a choice that ends up making the reactor cost that much more money. and the people on -- and i'm not on one side of this argument or the other. but people on one side will say, look, the number of peopl...

Actually right there with the other victims of this? >> well, no. i wouldn't think it's unusual. i mean they were in the area. apparently the long wall crew was still mining coal. as they were there. and the development, long wall 22 apparently finished mining coal and they were the second crew going to come out of the mine behind the crew that was in the man trip on the way out when the explosion occurred. so, no, they were kind of in the area where they probably would have been expected. it was just the conditions and the smoke was just so great that the rescuers in a frantic means to try to...