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Singing? i mean, what are we watching city hall here? i remember the movie "city hall" with danny ayala. he says, you're a singer. this kind of language, singing, ratting out, taking the 5th, it's under world talk. >> mob cases they're smart enough to use code when they're talking on tape. no, they're smart enough to cover their tracks. but these guys really are behaving as if they have -- i mean, rudy giuliani having been a united states attorney, who has prosecuted mob roadsters,st being out there giving these interviews that are not helping his client in any way, actually making things wors...

Power and influence to deceptive ends. the crimes were marked by a pattern of deception that permeated his professional life and was evidently hidden from the friends and family members who wrote on his behalf. this is going to be one sided because it's coming from the prosecutor. i'm an old defense attorney so i'm very weary of you prosecu r prosecutor's, but you have to rely on him to make the case against the president. joe digenova you rely on a snake like michael cohen, happens in mob cases, you rely on criminals to give up the goods on john ga d.j. y. >> first of all they're not going to...

Not -- would i do it in this situation? probably not. if i were manafort's lawyer. but it's not as unusual as some people on your air have suggested. i have known lawyers who have representing -- representing, subject of investigations, go to the lawyer who is representing the cooperator and ask him, what are they asking your guy, what's your guy saying? and sometimes you get a blank wall. sorry, i can't talk to you. we have a cooperation agreement. sometimes you have a lawyer say, look, i can't really tell you in detail, but if i were you, i'd prepare on this subject and this subject and this...

The people talking, you have had experience in mob cases -- when do the flood gates open? >> i've never put it that way, but that's a fabulous way to put it, contagious. the biggest mob cases you have to pull the thread. you never know how much is going unravel. you could unravel the whole sweater. it's a logical conclusion. once one person come in and say, i committed the crime can a, b,and c, then they have pressure on them. once it cascades, it breaks. >> witness tampering. the more rudy giuliani publicly talks about pardons, the more the president talks about how paul manafort is taking it...

Do with donald trump. >> it's a great way to flip one guy against another guy. we have done nit mob cases. you never know, you pull on that thread. you could start with a relatively obscure taxicab lawyer like gene friedland, roll it into michaelco zbln think about the social network if you were on the map, you start with the taxi king of new york, who the taxi medallion business as you noted it's a legitimate business. it tends to attract a fair amount of shadiness it's fair to say. your checker move to the president of the united states. >> the two checker moves from the short of shady offic...