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And he turned into not a very nice guy. he was a little creepy. >> he was tough on her? >> there were some unexplained bruises. i used to tell her, what are you doing? he did not deserve her. she wouldn't listen. >> the fights got worse and police were called three separate times to intervene. one time roc allegedly broke down the front door. that was the last straw. karen filed a domestic battery complaint and roc moved out. tim says even a year later, he was still harassing karen about a rolltop desk he left behind. >> she was starting to get scared of him toward the end. >> the issue he had...

>> i did call her on several occasions about myroltop desk. >> the desk. >> that stupid desk and it was bugging me. i mean, it was a nice piece of furniture and i wanted to get it back. she pretty much said, you left, you're not getting it. >> he never did get. >> that rolltop was still in karen's condo on the night she was stabbed to death. now, detective holbrooke pointedly wanted to know if roc had been there, too. >> he says, where were you on such-and-such a day. i'm like, well, first of all, i'll have to look at the calendar because i don't know where i was that day but i guarantee you i...

Dying declaration, it bit him. >> it bit him very hard. he outsmarted himself and that's why he's in prison. >> roc is free to ride his harley these days, but it still eats him up that a man he never met tried to frame him for murder. >> what would you say to him? >> i am restrained, correct? i couldn't get to him. i would not be a good communicator in that conversation mode with him sitting there. i couldn't do it. >> mike pannel couldn't do it either. he'd rather not think about tim permenter and the last moments of his precious baby sister's life. >> i'm not interested in remembering karen ...

Hour-and-a-half away. >> you went over these alleged beefs he might have had with her when they were boyfriend, girlfriend? >> he had moved on. >> the detectives were able to move on, too. they officially cleared roc. it was a major development. karen's exhad suddenly gone from being a prime person of interest to a victim himself. victim of the real killer who tried to frame him for the crime and was still out there somewhere. whoever killed her know somebody named roc. >> somebody knows my name. >> that's a part of the story. >> that's right f. you think about this, this is -- it's not even a...

Microscope, she did an analysis of the stains that stained the wall. >> that blood splatter served as a gruesome canvass with roc written over it. >> when the letters roc was over top of it. it skrimd over it and didn't disrupt it at all. >> here was her specialization, roc must have been written after they dried, how long after? >> i have a special machine i used to make some spatter. >> in her lab, she used animal blood to test how long for spatter to dry on a similar surface. >> when i came back and was able to apply spatter to some sections of some cardboard, i was able to get some blood a...