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Who is around the president to ask about the rigor of foreign policy to see if it's being carried out and upheld? >> that's a great question. if he's losing trust in john bolton, and that's a big if, it makes you wonder who is filling that gap. is it mike pompeo? certainly patrick shanahan has been a low key figure at the defense department so far. who is the president leaning on? his chief of staff mick mulvaney is a former congressman not particularly long experience in foreign policy. it also may be that some of this is faint and negotiation tactic. right? is there a good cop/bad cop situat...

If he's losing trust in john bolton, that's a big if, it makes you wonder who is filling that gap. is it mike pompeo? patrick shanahan has been a low key figure at the defense department so far. who is the president leaning on? his chief of staff is a former congressman not particularly long experience in foreign policy. it also may be that some of this is faint and negotiation tactic. is there a good cop bad cop situation going on in which he has no problem with john bolton going out there and saying tougher things while he the president pulls it back a little bit. he once tweeted not long ag...

Necessarily a failure. we talked about a couple days ago. no doesn't necessarily mean know. it means not yet. stepping away from the table is a negotiation tactic and that is what we are seeing. number 2, important not to get into the spiral of all is lost. the personal relationship between chairman kim and the president is important and they are critical and i will say maybe the time spent in hanoi helps both teams to get more realistic in terms of what to expect, what is achievable. we talked a couple days ago in terms of how far they need to go. if i were able to advise the president i woul...

Is the one who's got to run for re-election in 2020. if he does decide. how does that help him with independents or conservative democrats who may not like the look of the 2020 democratic field but going to see him as someone who can't really get things done and goes to these unusual lengths like a national emergency. >> just the very fact he continues to dangle this idea of declaring a national emergency, he's been doing it for weeks now. now you have to add in another 19 days. doug, doesn't this undermine the argument that the situation is, in fact, an emergency? >> not only undermines that ...

Table pounding portion. what you have here are people trying to control the narrative as opposed to trying to find a solution. either way you look at it, the american people look at this and say, well, whether this is a negotiation tactic or the art of the deal or whether this is the omnipotent nancy pelosi, where he in a shutdown. no one is moving the needle. the president said a few weeks ago that he will own this. now you see that that tide -- that train has left the situation. >> dick durbin, who was in the meeting with the other leadership, a meeting that lasted 14 minutes or something li...