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Them down to mar-a-lago before noon on january 20th while still president that's not going to be a crime. it doesn't become a crime until he loses the power of the presidency and then he illegally has nose documents and if that's the case then the whole crime happened in florida, not in d.c. and you can't charge it in d.c. >> also the question, a big question is not just the taking, it's the keeping of the documents and the obstruction factor in that so the other question i have about it, though, a lot of the aides who have gone and testified have come to washington to testify before that gran...

The keeping at the documents and obstruction factor of that. the other question i have about it though is that the other aides have testified and come to washington to testify before the grand jury, including the body man at the white house, or is valet at the white house. he is now trump's buddy man. he has gone and testified. he said that he did not move any boxes. when he went back, it was clear that prosecutors had a surveillance footage of him moving boxes. he changed his testimony and went dark. >> john dean, it's tough to overstate mark meadows importance in the trump white house and is...

President pence. and that complicates things. so you know, we'll see where it falls out. but again, i do think that that's the most serious thing facing the former president. and you see the distinction because obviously, the obstruction factor is what's at play with trump's situation. that's not something that's been brought up when it comes to biden, or when it comes to pence. i do want to ask you because trump's not just facing these investigations obviously is facing the one here in new york, maybe one in an indictment and in georgia, do you believe that president and former president this...

Mar-a-lago i want to note that nbc news has not confirmed that report and the justice department is not commenting on it hearing that, lisa, how crucial could that obstruction factor be in that case >> i've always thought that the obstruction factor is the most crucial component of the records ration, not a question of whether he took classified information, but this is the epitome of the cover-up being worse than the crime donald trump undertake an 18-month-long process to conceal information from the national archives and then the department of justice that just gets you through august of la...

Issue, and frankly, the desire on the part of some folks in the white house and some folks on the hill to take more control of the fbi, which they view as out of control or antagonistic to them. >> how does obstruction factor into this? does it? >> into the mccabe piece? you know, i think the mccabe piece may end up not factoring into the obstruction, but it definitely speaks to sort of the frankly terrible relationship that exists right now between the white house and the fbi, and in some ways between the justice department and the fbi, which is a bizarre situation. this whole notion that the...