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Some of this stuff he's investigating? >> i know it's possible in part because we know jeff sessions is involved in president trump's catch pain. he was part of his foreign policy advisors. second, on the obstruction line of inquiry, one of the intentions that mueller has been focused on is whether or not president trump attempted to pressure jeff sessions to unrecuse after the fact. whether or not that was done with the intention of obstructing the investigation. so i think it's maybe likely that mueller is going to speak to at an absolute minimum -- >> it's all yes, it's likely, it could hap...

Has no problem destroying those, but those norms are the fundamental underpinning of what we have regarded as the rule of law up until now. >> that's absolutely right. charlie has been hitting it on the head. this idea that donald trump can actually dangle the pardon to those who may incriminate him, right, suggests that the obstruction line of mueller's investigation is stronger, right? it seems as if -- and i'm not a er, butt seems to me this is part and parcel of why people think he's obstructing the investigation. in the midst of him trying to protect his own behind -- beremember, donald t...

And i'm looking forward to it. >> we're joined now by phone by benjamin wood. he's the editor in chief of l lawfare. he's a lawyer and an analyst. what is your answer to the president adding that line, no obstruction whatsoever. we've heard him say many times no collusion, but now he's adding the obstruction line. >> i guess this week everybody is talking about obstruction. so when they talk about collusion, he says there's no collusion, and when people talk about obstruction, he says there's no obstruction. he also says he's looking forward to meeting with mueller. i'm getting the impression ...

Breaking news tonight, the president added a new line to his public defense in the special prosecutor's investigation when he told reporters there was no obstruction of justice whatsoever. >> i'm looking forward to it, actually. there's been no collusion whatsoever. there is no obstruction whatsoever. and i'm looking forward to it. >> we're joined now by phone by benjamin wood. he's the editor in chief of lawfare. he's a lawyer and an analyst. what is your answer to the president adding that line, no obstruction whatsoever. we've heard him say many times no collusion, but now he's adding the o...

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