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Story. darren, thanks for joining me. you're writing about these democrats who are looking to get information from republicans, people in trump's orbit, who are not staffers technically at the white house. what do these democrats think that they can get? >> that's right. so the white house has been very effective at blocking don mcgahn, the former white house counsel, from testifying. he is clearly the star of the mueller report section on obstruction of justice. but the democrats recognize there are a lot of other star players in that report who never worked in the administration, either curr...

That is why the obstruction section of the mueller report is so famously damning more so than volume one. the president making clear he's accusing his white house counsel of criminal perjury. >> what would don mcgahn lie under oath? why would eli. >> because he wanted to make himself look like a good lawyer or or he believed it because i would constantly tell anybody that would listen including you, including the media that robert mueller was conflicted. robert mueller had a total -- i didn't say that. >> if you answer these questions to me now, why not answer them to robert mueller under oath...

Evidence showing that trump wanted to fire mueller. that is why the obstruction section of the mueller report is so famously damning more so than volume one. the president making clear he's accusing his white house counsel of criminal perjury. >> what would don mcgahn lie under oath? why would eli. >> because he wanted to make himself look like a good lawyer or or he believed it because i would constantly tell anybody that would listen including you, including the media that robert mueller was conflicted. robert mueller had a total -- i didn't say that. >> if you answer these questions to me n...

This is bad for republicans. it's bad for democrats but more importantly it's bad for our nation. >> we're going to keep our eye on the pledge. see who makes it. see who doesn't. i appreciate you being here for that. fairness matters to us. segway question. what's fair to the president of the united states? do you believe starting an impeachment inquiry or proceedings would be justified on what you understand the facts to be? would that be fair to the president of the united states? >> i think it would be fair on the basis of the mueller report. that was clearly a referral from bob mueller to ...

The united states? do you believe starting an impeachment inquiry or proceedings would be justified on what you understand the facts to be? would that be fair to the president of the united states? >> i think it would be fair on the basis of the mueller report. that was clearly a referral from bob mueller to congress for congress to use it's constitutional powers and i think actually do its constitutional duty to examine that report and make a determination about whether or not the president should be impeached. now i look at that obstruction section of the report and it seems to me that there...