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Consequences happening. and i don't think they're good for the president. it's creating distrust among the president's own legal team among his own advisers >> how so? >> because things cuss discussed in confidence are not kept independent confidence. it's creating distrust between the trump's lawyers and mueller's office. again this feeling they cannot talk candidly and honestly with each other because it could leak at any moment. and that inhibits the president's abilities to get a fair defense. like it or not in this country, people are entitled to a fair defense. when the questions the pro...

Simply doesn't have enough of the full evidence to be able to render that judgment. he can only go based on his experiences and what he witnessed one-on-one with the president. but in a broader sense. >> how about his firing? does he take his firing as an obstructive act? >> he does not spell that out. he details the acts surrounding the firing but he's leaving it to mueller to draw those conclusions. he does indict more broadly the president's behavior and his presidency in very strong terms. >> bret stephens, your thoughts about this, big picture? >> the big picture is it doesn't sound like ...

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It's not just documents, there are recordings. this is a guy who used to record phone conversations. and they now have access to those recordings. and maybe, we don't know, there's some conversations between michael cohen, and donald trump. >> and it's worth mentioning here, before leaving this subject, that he might have thought at some point that, well, i might get a pardon from the president. >> he hasn't been charged with anything. >> in advance of that, if this is something that would figure . i would be willing to bet anythinghe's been warned by any number of people, including perhaps hi...

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