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The second factor, with the hypocrisy, who is paying who and this nonsense and depending on the country. it seems at some point we have to acknowledge that the united states is rationally creating an incentive for people to create nuclear weapons. the only way to get rid of the united states either as buying you off or going to kill you, you get that and you're free from daddy. which is a totally nutty incentive. >> but i think the oil angle gets overplayed. there's an ideology at play. you mentioned john mccain and george bush and people in the obama administration too. there's either ideolog...

About the oil angle and frankly as oil creeps past $4 and heads toward $5 i think we're going to be a lot more concerned about oil and it's going to become kind of a dominant political issue in this country over the course of the next several months. but you know, it's not just libya we've got to keep an eye on. you've got problems in yemen, problems in bahrain. you've got demonstrations proposed for later this week in saudi arabia, which of course is a much bigger oil provider. so we're right now focused on libya because that's where the fighting is. my guess is this is one of those stories t...

Fast or slow destruction of the gadhafi regime. i don't really see that they can hold on indefinitely. >> how about libya becoming at risk of -- at greater risk rather of becoming a terrorism-sponsored state? >> well, first of all, libya was a terrorism sponsoring state. libya's been a bad actor for a lot of the past couple of decades. so this wouldn't exactly be new. but i do think to the extent to which rebels take hold and to the extent to which there is any kind of movement toward democracy i think that that possibly diminishes that. and frankly, there are a lot of other places in the worl...