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Hicks. what do you make of that? >> it's very hard to know. but then again, you'd have to ask hope hicks. was she in direct contact with the president? and that's quite likely given their relationship. it certainly was a false statement, and don jr. knew it was a false statement. so, he's responsible for that part of it, whether he told his father or not. i mean, let's just be human beings and say, do you think that don jr. didn't tell his father about the meeting and didn't report to him? i just find it hard to believe that he didn't. >> you've identified something here. both these case of fl...

I think what hoyer and pelosi are doing is walk a fine line between not saying that he shouldn't be impeached, but saying this is not a thing we should be talking about right now. there are more politically effective things for democrats to be talking about. >> the difference between a substantive case for it and a tactical one. the substantive case and the originalist case, al green actually mixes as do you, the idea that this was not seen as a criminal item in the constitution, this could be used as sort of politically or just malfeasance, and i thought of the argument you made today when i ...

Father or not. i mean, let's just be human beings and say, do you think that don jr. didn't tell his father about the meeting and didn't report to him? i just find it hard to believe that he didn't. >> you've identified something here. both these case of flynn and don jr. which is the reporting has brought us up to the level as a established fact of all these various principles, the president's son, other folks. what is not done is shown us given any lightning to the interactions between the president himself, his communications and these people. >> that is absolutely true. now circumstantial ...

Now circumstantial evidence is often more persuasive than direct evidence. and there are some circumstantial facts that we could look at here that would make you believe that the president knew about all of these things that were going on. but, we don't know that. i'm hoping that mueller has that kind of information and can present a very compelling circumstantial case. if he can't, then maybe the president is innocent. it's possible, but i just have trouble believing that he hasn't been fully informed. and the defenses that they're putting forward are really complicated because it's basically...

Fbi about discussing sanctions with the russian ambassador. in that case, flynn and consist lee yak were specifically talking about the new sanctions that were meant to punish russia for interfering on donald trump's behalf. that turns out was not flynn's only conversation about the the future of russian sanctions. according to a whistle blower. flynn told a former business associate, get this, on inauguration day that sanctions against russia would be, quote, ripped up as one much his first orders of business inside the white house. flynn had been boricing on plan to build nuclear power plant...