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My time is about to expire. miss campbell, did you do any kind of pilot program on this before it was rolled out? >> no, there was no pilot program. >> you said it was complicateed and big, but it was meeting your expectation? do you think it's right that 99% of the people that tried to go through the system get rejected, can't even complete the application? is that a system that you're proud of? >> sir, this is a system that we are working every day to make improvements? >> well, in my, if we have a system that almost no one can successfully navigate, that we have to go to the paper system of...

I'm not even sure if that's possible. >> how about making it 100% you can't work in the united states without a work permit which you need to have. if you were to go to belgium to get a job, you went to france or swaziland, sam, you would need a work permit. >> that's right. >> so what's wrong with asking for a work permit? >> nothing. this is what mitt romney's platform was was we need a very robust e-verify program. i'm 100% positive that polls well. the question, though, is not whether you can isolate one component and say we need to do this. it's as the governor said you have to have a ste...

Fool me twice, shame on me. on e verify, it's not perfect but the system we have now, this paper system is a joke. if you come to me and i'm a hardware store season owner and you give me a piece of paper, what am i supposed to do, go down and conduct an international investigation to verify the document? of course, not. >> i want to make it possible for people to honestly little hire people and they do it honestly. thank you, sam, and thank you governor pawlenty. up next nbc's chief foreign correspondent, richard engel with the latest on the situation in turkey. i don't know if you've been wat...

Cronkite trained himself to speak in 204 words a minute, and that he had to train to slow down because people could not understand him. and tell us about the caging. >> well, caging is the idea of taking a list and using that list to either remove the people from the rolls or challenge the people to vote on election day. we think that the origin comes from the old days when they used to use mailboxes and literal ly look like cages when some piece of mail would come back and it would be put in a particular thing that looked like a cage. one of the really important aspects of the voter empowerme...

who will fill the shoes and be the product visionary. steve jobs could understand what consumers want before they wanted all these products. who will step in and be able to sort of create the next iphone or the next ipad? that's the own question here. i don't think anybody can answer that, kyra. >> i think a lot of people are asking that question. i understand there are some special services for employees today. >> we don't know when they're going to occur, what we know is that when steve jobs died ceo tim cook put out a statement and said at some point there will be a celebration of...