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9/11 backfired on osama bin laden. how so? >> yeah. what did he want -- what did he hope to achieve? he hoped to get the u.s. out of the middle east. none of that happened. the united states didn't pull out, we're in afghanistan, we're in iraq. our relations with the saudis and egyptians are stronger than ever. and he lost his base in afghanistan. al qaeda had this great -- they almost ran a parallel state in afghanistan. that's gone. >> he has gone from a minor player kind of known in the region to a worldwide -- >> sure, he's become a world historical figure as a result of what he did and wh...

Parallel state in afghanistan is now very much on the smaller size. it is located in the tribal regions of pakistan. it's not the first murderous organization in history that was bureaucr bureaucratic. >> thank you so much for this conversation. you can read an excerpt from peter's primer on "all things al qaeda." later on in the show a revolutionary plan to cut health care costs by up to 50%. the case for treating the so-called super utilizers coming up. [ female announcer ] the only thing better than seafood