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I won. he has this attitude instead of reaching across the aisle he pokes him in the eye. >> the president is underestimating the incentive for senate majority leader mcconnell to deal. because, you know, the senate caucus, the senate republican caucus is not as conservative as the house caucus. you have a lot more pragmatists. even the conservatives want to cut a dealed of and not as many ted cruzs as the white house likes to think. the fact that he went so early on pushing the executive order on immigration. that was a sign that the white house doesn't think that there are dealmakers in this...

>> pass. everyone talks about tax reform. three big problems with that first of all no one can agree on what the loop monthlies -- holes are. you know, they just can't figure that out. i don't see really much room for compromise at all there. >> any compromise? >> there is potential for some big areas. very few. i think tax reform may be one of them if they get past first disagreement. i'm not overly optimistic. smaller window talking about 2016 pretty quickly and the president himself won't be the most prominent democrat. >> my standard for tax reform is very slight. i think the tax code shou...

And they will get out of it. >> you know, it is stunning. i mean, this is absolutely stunning. here are the unions are the ones who are pushing this so much. and now they're asking for a special deal which will just add more money to the american people because if they're not paying $63, you know, a head. then we have got to pick up the -- here is the other thing which slays me. get out aer year. money we are collecting it's 12 billion in 2014, 8 billion in 2015. 5 billion in 102016. big bulk. if they get out the first year. makes it even worse. >> that's right. look, the unions you said in yo...

Passed the legislation, why do you need a subsidy in the first place? >> exactly and it underscores all of the problems that have been happening with obamacare. as one of my colleagues said, obamacare in its implementation is a train wreck. what is interesting about that quote, it is not from a fellow conservative, from max baucus the democratic chair of the finance committee that helped draft and pass obamacare. bill: back to the point. people in congress are worried about a brain drain. if the law was so good and so sufficient, why would you people be running away for it. >> for america and ...

Care under obamacare, no, i wouldn't support that. i think they should have the same thing that everybody else has, and if they have to pay extra out of pocket, a lot of people pay extra out of pocket, but we really don't know what's happening yet. bill: the office of personnel management that runs federal benefit will release regulatory details this week. and if they make these changes, tony, what does it say about the law? >> well, first of all, obviously we've seen this week, this is the third strike for obamacare, the employer mandate has been suspended, but the president has agreed to do ...