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Violate them, as michael cohen admitted that he had, that's a crime. >> so it's very significant. >> and it also serves as corroboration of everything michael cohen was saying on this issue. >> shan, that last point jeff made is important. the president is saying you can't trust michael cohen, he's a liar, clearly he's done a lot of lying over the course of his career. but now david pecker, a.m.i., they have signed a document stating facts and they say about this meeting as jeff said, it was specifically to keep women quiet so it didn't impact the election. >> it's completely contradicting wha...

Water in all this, anderson. >> jim accosta, thank you. a lot to talk about. jeffrey tubin, shan wu, usa columnist, and rick santorum. jeff, how much does it change things if the president was in this meeting with david pecker and michael cohen in 2015? >> well, first of all, it eliminates the whole argument that the reason for this payment was to spare melania trump embarrassment because, according to prosecutors and according to cohen and apparently according to pecker, the reason for this meeting was to talk about how the "national enquirer" was going to pay women to keep them quiet during ...

Of headlines, we don't know. i have heard from trump's lawyers, but again nothing is true until he then does it, he does not look into firing mueller. he realizes that is a stove way too hot to touch. but i think the thinking is that with matt whitaker there you don't necessarily have to do that. the report could end up being thinner. the report could have a thinner recitation of facts. the report might never become public. the report might never be seen. so whether they are going to -- it is true that it is within his power, it seems, on one argument to appoint matt whitaker, but the point je...

That is just is false. in the same way there is not an unprecedented number across the border, in fact, it has been the opposite, that association of immigration and even illegal immigration with crime is false. >> although one of the things he has done skillful lu is take individual -- >> absolutely. >> to symbolize a larger problem that may or may not exist. >> correct. >> the question is whether this tough hand at the border will coincide with a deal on daca or broader immigration deal that doesn't seem to be in the offing. bush back in 2006 when he did this he was trying to get to other me...

>> i think it's both of those. they are turning it down. i have no doubt that he will get another lawyer somewhere. but the idea that this extremely prestigious assignment is being turned town because he doesn't listen to lawyers, he thinks he is smarter than lawyers, he doesn't pay lawyers. >> the point jeff is making is important. let's take a step back. it is is extraordinary that a president is the subject of a criminal investigation from special counsel from fbi. and lawyers are running the other way. >> and the initial conversations with the president, trump kept pressing him to say, wel...