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Front in 2008 about saying this kind of eavesdropping was just fine as long as the fisa court said it was so. and he reversed himself just before he got the nomination. he got enough votes for the nomination but hadn't yet gone through his convention. he reversed himself right there. he flagged this up. you know, the truth is people have tried to engage in this debate on the civil liberties side, journalists, even politicians and not many people have shown much interest. >> sam, talking about the fisa courts, the president in the interview with charlie rose that's airing later tonight, says ba...

Appeal they can engender, the way they can get people to feel about their service, the fact we marketed in commercials to make people feel good about homecomings and all these things when they are the ones trying to turn that into something that is more concrete, more policy based. are there any examples? is there anything that we know from social movements in america or from balance of power in america about how best to make those things work? >> i think, a, marshaling shame, our shame, the shame of the country for failing in the photos we've seen has been effective in the past, right? i also...