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Living wage and don't. >> yeah. i think these are the same arguments we really heard rise to the surface lately and i think he's getting attention, rightly so and good. this is a huge issue with using pitchfork. go for it. this is a huge issue and we are seeing more and more ceos, people in positions like his. howard shultz is trying to send his employees to college. we are hearing the word destabilizing a lot from ceos. people at the upper edges of 1% are starting to say we got to do something about this. the economy doesn't do well when there is no middle class. a piece in "the times" saying...

Are just fundamentally corrupt. >> i find interesting obviously, this smells quite nasty but this is not caught with the american public. i know, joe, has been talking a lot about not getting enough media coverage. the media coverage is there and the american public is not biting. i don't know if we assume all of these bureaucracies are frought with this. but for some reason not infiltrating the culture. >> to your point, donny, i think people separate the irs from big government. i don't think they necessarily think of those as the same thing. the irs is a special case, right? everybody has f...

I own a bank and i see trouble. he has always been a little bit of an outlier and argued in the past for 15 dollar minimum wage. you don't see a lot of zillionaires arguing for that. he says it would be in the interest of the rich to reduce some of this inequality. he says we, like our customers, rich and our employees poor doesn't make much sense. he uses the henry ford example. look at your workers as customers. and he says in here that revolutions like bankruptcy come slowly and suddenly. you think the tipping point you're going to be able to get ahead of it but you won't. >> the pitchfork ...

Throwing up its hand and saying, my dog ate the homework. >> it is unbelievable, isn't it? depending on how you look at this. the best case scenario is that this is an utter indictment on government, that big government is utterly incompetent and can't even manage to preserve e-mails, something like everybody else has to do. i think, obviously, the much more dangerous idea is that the irs is covering this up and, you know, it does seem quite coincidental, doesn't it? here they were kind of targeting their enemies and, all of a sudden, multiple computers, hard drives crash and lois lerner, it's...

Targeting groups that pose them, that should be an outrage of people. don't you agree? >> i do agree. we should correct the record there are also indications that liberal groups were -- >> that's what i'm saying. >> -- extra excrescrutiny. i think the underlying assumption the irs are a bunch of mean people who target -- anybody who has ever dealt with the irs. >> there is a competency here. it's not newsy for most people and, you know, the fact that they misplace all of these e-mails, if after deglitch in obamacare should have seen easy to roll out a website, maybe people are more incompetenc...