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Now the fed is traditionally independent. i think that's why you see these sorts of conflicts erupting continually between the president and jerome powell because he cannot control jerome powell. when powell doesn't do with the interest rate what the president would like him to do, it leads to these repeated clashes. the president is not in control of this situation. >> he's not supposed to be, the whole point as well. eliana johnson, thank you so much. i want to warn you that what we're about to show is this image that's very disturbing as we follow the latest on the humanitarian crisis at ...

Your definition of for cause and the president's of for cause might be slightly different. >> kate, one thing that presidents normally do is the people that they select to be the chairman of the federal reserve are people who agree with their economic position. >> do you think powell doesn't? >> i think he does. there's an honest disagreement among economists about whether the fed should be raising interest rates. i think -- my opinion is it's a close call. trump is a real estate guy. he loves low interest rates. he wants to keep those rates low. you look at the inflation rate right now, it's ...

Where he is not going to be challenged. that tells me that it goes beyond sort of having a difference of opinion on this issue or that issue it seems to be more of an orchestrated approach. >> if colin powell were interested in approving the republican party you don't go on msnbc. nobody's watching. all right? >> he should come on your show? >> right. if he was sincere about telling the party and i think he has a point, hey, you are not registering among hispanic americans, you don't have any black constituency, you come on the network where some republicans may see you. >> like lindsey graham...

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Where he is not going to be challenged. that tells me that it goes beyond sort of having a difference of opinion on this issue or that issue it seems to be more of an orchestrated approach. >> if colin powell were interested in approving the republican party you don't go on msnbc. nobody's watching. all right? >> he should come on your show? >> right. if he was sincere about telling the party and i think he has a point, hey, you are not registering among hispanic americans, you don't have any black constituency, you come on the network where some republicans may see you. >> like lindsey graham...