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He's not going to defend that strawman tactic. >> it's a mirage. it turns out that running against a mirage out there in the desert makes you thirsty and you need to -- >> okay. you guys are cruel. you're a pr guy. a good sense of that word, steve mcmahon. i say you only get one reputation. i'm still paying for thrill up my leg. you do these things. you do something out of the ordinary, and it doesn't go away. is he stuck with that? >> i worked for howard dean, a guy that i love -- >> and what do people remember about howard dean? >> that's what they remember about him, standing on the stage i...

>> is he tyrannical? is he a socialist? >> i don't think he's tyrannical and i doubt he's a socialist. >> thank you. then you recognize reality. >> that's kind of my deal. >> john usually recognizes reality. >> he's not going to play this game. he's throwing the ball out and saying you guys play that game. he's not going to defend that strawman tactic. >> it's a mirage. it turns out that running against a mirage out there in the desert makes you thirsty and you need to -- >> okay. you guys are cruel. you're a pr guy. a good sense of that word, steve mcmahon. i say you only get one reputation. ...

>> a lot of this is part of being a journalist, you have to know if you're being spun. how many times has-- >> how many times, i don't know, there are plenty of really good journalists out there, the lance armstrong thing, how many times did adam, charlie, some pr guy-- >> and why on health care. >> neil: let her say it. >> let me finish before i backhand you. >> please do. >> neil: let her say it! >> go ahead, dagen. >> we've gotten the phone call or the e-mail saying let me take you to coffee and now the person has an agenda. so, if you go in there, as long as you know that. >> and that's a ...

The nationalization of social issues, and that is a very, very slippery slope to get into. because if you start nationalizing marriage, where do you draw the line? where do you stop nationalizing social policy? jenna: a lot of people say it needs better pr. you're a pr guy, it's not just pr. >> no, it's not. it's about commitment to principles. jenna: we look forward to having you back and continue to have the conversation. thank you very much. >> thank you. happy thanksgiving.jenna: you t. jon: the u.s. faces a new reality in the middle east as one of its closest allies becomes embroiled in m...

>> he has all of the publicity he needs. he doesn't need a pr guy. >> how did this story get intense? >> you are full of it tonight, girlfriend. >> how did she just turn into my wife? all right, fine. >> i'm not hungry. i'm not hungry. heat whatever you want. >> fine, whatever. i think it is awesome. i am glad they did that. if -- they didn't stay together for you or me. they were together for a longtime. they called it quits and that's it. i am sick of people having to be happy if other people are happy. oh they have been together for 30 years so it does work. it works if it works for you. it...