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that including her. and so we will be asking the judge for change of venue out of d.c. and so the trump team may ask for a change of venue, omar, but none of the january 6th defendants who have asked previously for a change of venue out of d.c. saying that the jury pool is biased here, and none of them have been granted, and so it would be a big ask to have this venue change granted when they ask for it, but they are priming for a fight here, and they are flooding the zone with all sorts of requests that they may be asking for the judge to change the venue, and recuse hest all at 5:00 p.m. and kate, we are talking about the trial out of washington, d.c., here. >> exactly. this is what we are looking at out of d.c., and in atlanta, things are heating up there as well, and the streets outside of

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American Voices With Alicia Menendez

there wasn't judge's jesse waters at fox news, that was a very big news -- this is, it this is why you have to get out there and vote. donald trump is going to be your mechanism for revenge against all these people. and so, and that i think is a really powerful motivator. they're not just spinning all these lies and conspiracies. you heard about the damage of disinformation. they're also giving people a call to action. and the call to action isn't immediately violence. but they're priming that pump as the ends justify the means. but their first call to action is to make sure that they are ready to vote, to rally around donald trump. and the election. you've seen that play out right now. it is, i've been doing this for a while. this is a very scary moment right now. it doesn't feel like it's boiling over. it's not. it is a roaring simmer. just one more degree and the water is going to be everywhere >>, you look at the polling in some of those is borne out of recent reuters poll found that among republicans, 45% said

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American Voices With Alicia Menendez

do you create that for the other 65% of the republican base that it seems to have largely checked out of this process to get them to check back in to eclipse trump. >> to be very honest i don't think that it is possible. there is a narrow chance of it, because we are an active god away, and donald trump is the old, he could have a health event as much as joe biden could, it is possible the next indictment will magically make trump unpalatable for some reason to voters. it is not worth giving up. i don't think anybody should ever give up. who passed has the last word. but you have to be serious about not laying a predicate that is going to make it harder for biden to beat trump in the general election. the idea is that we have to stop trump at all costs. do that, but don't in the process, create off-ramps for republican voters to stick with

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American Voices With Alicia Menendez

the dual election that can win. >> joining me now, jonathan, editor of the bulwark and tom nichols, staff writer at the atlantic. i was really looking forward to this one conversation. this is going to be fun. jonathan, we are showing the gop nomination as trump is to lose. the general election is a different ball game here. what is your thought on the republican base, understanding that sticking with trump actually means they are not going to win against biden next year. >> you know, michael, i don't know if that is what it means. this is the terrifying part. will hurd makes the argument that the reason republicans have to move away from trump's because if they nominate trump to lose, that would be nice to think, i would think that the nominee, a guy who has been indicted twice and will be indicted again, it would lead to him losing. >> he's five points ahead of where he was in 2020 against

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American Voices With Alicia Menendez

biden. you look at the polling average and he is right about even with biden. i'm absolutely not convinced that even a trump under criminal indictment is a surefire loser against biden. because of the electoral college, i think that he's got a 35 to 40% floor on his chances no matter what. and that is what is really scary. what we need is that we need guys like will hurd just saying the reason not to vote against trump is because he's dangerous for america. don't support trump because he is dangerous for america. not because it would give joe biden four more years. what is he afraid of? another bipartisan infrastructure bill? that is ridiculous. >> wait a minute. the brother got booed. he spoke the truth last night and he got booed. i mean, this base is telling him you don't want to hear it. we don't want to hear it. so i mean, what does it take, what do you do, how do you move? it's not so much a question of moving them off of trump, they are not going anywhere, but how

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American Voices With Alicia Menendez

republicans on going to go after trump for the indictments, we are going to defend him against them and that is why i don't think that they make any difference in the base. desantis has missed his chance, and i think it is because he never -- he always thought worse comes to worse, i could finish in second and run in 2028. i am a young guy, i just left the governor's mansion in 2026, and that, you know, ask chris christie what happens when you miss your moment. history presents its moments once to people. never twice. and it is a huge mistake. he should have gone for starting six months ago, ten months ago, and instead he was afraid of being on the wrong side of the republican base and maybe correctly. maybe he said this is a cold and i know i will never be able to shake people loose of it. so i'm just going to abide my time. maybe that is the correct judgment. but it doesn't mean that he's never really playing to win. >> not playing to win.

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American Voices With Alicia Menendez

trump in 2024 by pretending that joe biden is the second coming of karl marx. >> there is that. tom, you have nbc news reporting that reads quote, most of the 2024 candidate field has been the past two and a half validating or turning a blind eye to trump's false claims that he won the 2020 election. priming the republican base to believe that trump is a proven winner against president biden. now that we have only a few months, you know, in front of us to try to undo that perception, that base appears reluctant to press the case. where does this go? where does this leave us at this point to what jonathan and i were just saying about this base holding their hands to their ears not wanting to hear the truth? but the candidates are the ones, i think, that can make a difference. but they don't seem to want to. >> two really important points, one is, as jonathan pointed out,

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American Voices With Alicia Menendez

he is right about even with biden. i'm absolutely not convinced that even a trump under criminal indictment is a surefire loser against biden. because of the electoral college, i think that he's got a 35 to 40% floor on his chances no matter what. and that is what is really scary. what we need is that we need guys like will hurd just saying the reason not to vote against trump is because he's dangerous for america. don't support trump because he is dangerous for america. not because it would give joe biden four more years. what is he afraid of? another bipartisan infrastructure bill? that is ridiculous. >> wait a minute. the brother got booed. he spoke the truth last night and he got booed. i mean, this base is telling him you don't want to hear it. we don't want to hear it. so i mean, what does it take, what do you do, how do you move? it's not so much a question of moving them off of trump, they are not going anywhere, but how do you create that for the other 65% of the republican

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American Voices With Alicia Menendez

blind eye to trump's false claims that he won the 2020 election. priming the republican base to believe that trump is a proven winner against president biden. now that we have only a few months, you know, in front of us to try to undo that perception, that base appears reluctant to press the case. where does this go? where does this leave us at this point to what jonathan and i were just saying about this base holding their hands to their ears not wanting to hear the truth? but the candidates are the ones, i think, that can make a difference. but they don't seem to want to. >> two really important points, one is, as jonathan pointed out, everybody is making the wrong argument. they are making a transactional

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American Voices With Alicia Menendez

the next election that can win. >> joining me now, jonathan, editor of the bulwark, and tom ethical. staff writer at the atlantic. i was looking forward to this conversation, folks, this is gonna be fun, jonathan those polls out there showing the gop nomination is trump's to lose. but the general election is a different ball game here, so what is your thoughts on the republican base understanding that sticking with trump actually means they're not gonna win against biden next year? >> michael, i don't know that that's what it means, because this is the terrifying part, will hurd makes the argument that the reason republicans have to move away from trump's because they nominate trump they will lose, and that would be nice to think, i would like to think that nominating a guy who's been indicted twice and will be indicted again, would lead to him losing, but right now trump is running five points ahead of where he was in 2020 against biden, he's, if you look at the polling average,

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