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The limits of what we thought were the powers of chairmen in this process, because they are abusing this hearing process and there really isn't a way to get them to behave the way they're supposed to in these hearings. >> well, i think to the extent possible, and i realize under the procedural rules you can't completely do this, they have to not engage right? they have to try to shut it down as quickly and as early as possible there seemed to be a lot of debate going on about -- right there in the moment about privilege. i mean, this is a bogus privilege that's being asserted. so either they s...

>> on the privilege issue, the only thing that makes sense is the special master signaled to trump and cohen, that she was going to find that this recording falls under the crime fraud exception to attorney/client privilege. rather than endure a finding like that. >> which would be catastrophic. >> politically and publicly devastating, she gave them the opportunity to with draw the privilege, their privilege assertions -- >> that is the first time that someone has made sense. that makes sense to me. we don't know if that is the case, but that is your conjecture. >> it is all conjecture. now th...

Recording falls under the crime fraud exception to attorney/client privilege. rather than endure a finding like that. >> which would be catastrophic. >> politically and publicly devastating, she gave them the opportunity to with draw the privilege, their privilege assertions -- >> that is the first time that someone has made sense. that makes sense to me. we don't know if that is the case, but that is your conjecture. >> it is all conjecture. now that we have heard it, it doesn't add up. >> it is not wildly exculpatory. >> and by the way, it doesn't matter whether it is cash or a shell company...

Was more exculpatory than the other ones. and that they may be able to be a bit more worried about the other tapes and that was one they were okay with releasing. >> so this is a key point. they have control over waiving privilege. we don't know, i just want to be clear here, we don't know the total universe of tapes that may exist, right? we just know that 12 are in fbi possession, in investigators' hands. we don't know if there's others they've essentially blocked because of privilege assertions. >> that's right. we know they have a vast amount of information. they raided cohen's apartment a...

They've essentially blocked because of privilege assertions. >> that's right. we know they have a vast amount of information. they raided cohen's apartment and they raided a hotel where he was staying and his offices in may. and it's really taken them a long time. that's why they had to call on this special master to go through everything to see what could be used. so the universe is vast. another thing this does tell us, though, chris, is if we look at the timing of this, michael cohen was recording the conversations he was having with donald trump two months before the election. you record i...