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A public hearing issue before them? because soon they're going to have to put this in bite size, understandable narrative fashion. >> i think that they do understand that. what you've seen from speaker pelosi is a message for her caucus to focus on what happened here, what was the shakedown, what was he doing in ukraine, and using all these statements to build out that narrative. to not take the bait into the process arguments, which is really where they got bogged down during the mueller investigation going to these issues of obstruction, arguing with the administration on some of these issue...

Looking at abuse of power in ukraine and then something separate on obstruction in ukraine and maybe something from the mueller report. >> mieke, with your experience working in the house and the democratic staff side, how does that sound to you? and do you think that the house general -- democrats in the house would agree to that approach? >> look, i think it's always a challenge to manage a caucus as diverse as one that's in the majority. you have people with competing political interests here and concerns, but one thing we've learned is nancy pelosi is a master politician and her ability to...

Master politician and her ability to understand exactly where the caucus is and what they can support and what the political implications are is unmatched and she's going to be able to marry that with what's the legal case for impeachment of this president? i think her instinct, make it as simple as possible to understand with this umbrella of abuse of power is really helpful. all too often democrats can get bogged down in process arguments and making it a very simple, clear, this is about how trump has abused his office and used his power for his own personal benefit, that can help cut throug...

Nixon or watergate, they had separate bodies that did this behind closed doors and presented it. they don't in this case. but republicans are able to make the process arguments and it is not in front of the public. at some point aren't democrats going to have to bring this in front of the public? >> think so. and i think they will and i think the circumstances are pretty important. one, they are hearing from career foreign service officers who are not accused of wrongdoing for the most part and sharing information about what happened and that should be behind closed doors. there are democrats ...

I'm not concerned about anything. you know, they can't -- they can't -- they have no substance. they can't defend the president so they're going to process. we're not going there. >> house speaker nancy pelosi said today that she doesn't need to call republicans' bluff. the gop has been making process arguments, calling the impeachment process a sham or illegitimate. and that probably sounds great to trump fans on state tv, but if that's all they've got for the rest of us, they're already losing. "the washington post" quoted what can be called the michael barone rule on process arguments. quot...