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Perjury case against roger stone and i'm not going to have it. roger is my mentor. roger is like family to me. and i'm not going to do it. >> this picture is from a few days later when nunberg did indeed imply with robert mueller's subpoena to talk about roger. sam joins me now. he's a former aide to donald trump. good to have you here. what do you think roger's calculation is? >> i think it's the same calculation michael probably had. remember, early on the president and his team said that michael was a good man. the president said it was very wrong that they raided michael's office. they wer...

Said, well, roger, this has nothing to do with the campaign. my god, this is just another process crime. let's see what happens a month or so from now. roger -- just to finish very quickly. roger and donald trump are very complicated love/hate relationship. >> elaborate on that. >> they have known each other for over 40 years, at least since the '80s. these are people that they have not spoken for three years. they have fought, they have fought publicly, they have fought behind the scenes. there was litigation involved between them, just like litigation -- >> i think they're kind of similar, t...

The republicans, by contrast, failed by saying, you know, the president -- they stuck to the tired line of no collusion and didn't go any further. john: let me connect a couple of dots. this is a, quote, process crime, and roger stone claims he's broke. listen here. >> no matter how much pressure they put on me, no matter what they say, i will not bear false witness against donald trump. i are not make up lies to ease the pressure on myself. john: that was actually the wrong sound. let's play the right sound. [laughter] >> this has been financially devastating. the leaks from the general -- fr...

John: well, a process crime is still a serious crime. >> the president's right, digging up dirt on a political opponent is called opposition research. it is not collusion. i mean -- john: but if you're working with an organization that's working with russia -- >> it is not criminal activity. >> to john's point, the issue isn't that they were trying to dig up opposition research, they were trying to see what roger stone knew about wikileaks, having information they obtained via russia. >> digging up dirt to impress the trump campaign and then lied to -- >> and work with a foreign government to ...

The republicans, by contrast, failed by saying, you know, the president -- they stuck to the tired line of no collusion and didn't go any further. john: let me connect a couple of dots. this is a, quote, process crime, and roger stone claims he's broke. listen here. >> no matter how much pressure they put on me, no matter what they say, i will not bear false witness against donald trump. i are not make up lies to ease the pressure on myself. john: that was actually the wrong sound. let's play the right sound. [laughter] >> this has been financially devastating. the leaks from the general -- fr...