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He lied during the campaign as a surrogate. he could say absurd things. >> any time you have a cooperator in criminal cases they almost always have terrible conduct in their past. lying is often the least of it. the question prosecutors ask in summation is we didn't pick the witness. we didn't decide who the witness was going to be in the case. the defendant picked the witness. he's the one who chose to put his trust in michael cohen. >> not just for a few months but for years. >> and paul manafort. i mean look at the crew who was around the president. >> only the best. >> only the best. how m...

A process crime. it was people who are lying to investigators. that's still a crime. that's still something you're not supposed to do and because everybody connected to this almost everybody has told a series of lies. the mueller investigation and these charges that he's laid out have become one of the only ways for the public spsyche to weed out what is real. >> i've never heard the phrase process crimes until this week. the idea this is lesser crime. you know what a process crime is, it's a crime. the idea that it's somehow not as bad as some other crimes is just the most ridiculous kind of ...

It was people who are lying to investigators. that's still a crime. that's still something you're not supposed to do and because everybody connected to this almost everybody has told a series of lies. the mueller investigation and these charges that he's laid out have become one of the only ways for the public psyche to weed out what is real. >> i've never heard the phrase process crimes until this week. the idea this is lesser crime. you know what a process crime is, it's a crime. the idea that it's somehow not as bad as some other crimes is just the most ridiculous kind of spin. >> you could...

Investigations go. dagen: but andy i just, no continue and then i'll follow-up on that. >> i was going to say they've ratcheted up the formal standard s of criminal it with a very technical standards of criminality in this investigation versus other investigations and i think what upsets people is the difference in the quality of justice that hillary clinton got versus what is happening to the trump campaign. dagen: right what you said that you were talking about the theory of russia's involvement in the election and how that morphed and then you see the screws being put to one individual afte...

Clinton investigation, back when , in the lewinsky scandal, the thing that the independent counsel was assigned to investigate and got permission to investigate was the obstruction that clinton was involved in and that lewinsky was implicated in. here, what's happened, is the investigation itself by special counsel mueller has created these process crimes after he was assigned to it, so it's not like he was assigned to go find this process crime and people lied about that. he was assigned to basically see if there's a conspiracy between the trump campaign and the kremlin and the process of tha...