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Progressive tax code, which is what the united states of america has and it's the right thing, and it's about fairness and fairness of opportunity, your point is there's a technical element of redistribution by virtue of hiring -- >> not just technical -- that's redistribution. you are paying for it! >> let's be real about it. let's be real about this. when president obama talks about redistribution, chris, you know this is true, when he talks about redistribution, he is talking about a massive difference from the romney plan, which is about simpler, lower marginal rates, getting rid of exempt...

Kennedy in massachusetts? is it fair to say this? >> all is fair in love and politics i suppose, thomas. the problem with this argument about redistribution is that our system here in the united states has long been based on redistribution. we have a progressive tax code, for instance. you could even argue -- you can argue very well, as a matter of fact, that mitt romney is part of his 47%. remember mitt romney doesn't pay much in federal income tax. mitt romney pays capital gains taxes which are much lower, 15%. that's because the american government has decided to favor people who get most o...

This is not a 14-year-old idea. >> right. >> this is current. >> if you apply that to policies, if you apply to the vision he's spelling out there, that is a vision that's consistent with conservative traditions. >> i don't know about that. >> ronald reagan, part of this whole controversy right now is about people not paying taxes has to do with the earned income tax credit. conceived by republicans and promoted by ronald reagan who called it the best anti-poverty program we have. this was a conservative vision. is that not redistribution? >> well said. if you support redistribution -- if you ...

Especially with carried interest. >> and that was after he said that romney should release his tax returns. that's republican intellectual leader bill kristol saying that he would raise taxes. in fact, he would especially raise taxes on investment bankers who used the carried interest provisions to pay absurdly low tax rates. that's bill kristol saying it's weird that investment bankers like mitt romney pay a lower rate than an awful lot of middle class people. that's bill kristol saying that for the mitt romneys of this country, the tax code is not progressive enough. he personally would desi...

Rate than an awful lot of middle class people. that's bill kristol saying that for the mitt romneys of this country, the tax code is not progressive enough. he personally would design a more progressive tax code. every word that bill kristol just said is now republican heresy. but it used to be republican orthodoxy. ronald reagan believed in a progressive income tax code. ronald reagan believed that the mitt romneys should pay more than 13%. ronald reagan believed that the mitt romney should pay a higher income tax rate than the people who made less money. way less money, than the mitt romneys...