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But proxy wars that the u.s. engaged in where we supported our allies in a significant enough way where they could ultimately achief the objectives. we need to get the missiles coming in important but russians operate without consequences. firing the missiles without consequences. we could provide more equipment. what my objective would be is to establish a no-fly zone. arm them with the medium and long range defense systems and i also absolutely underscored that the thing that is we thought unacceptable weeks ago are completely acceptable today. we are going to find ourselves in a situation w...

So far it has hit some road blocks. let's give it some time. in the meantime, as barbara reported, i think more fruitful and immediate would be to get additional anti-air weapons systems above and beyond quite literally the altitude stingers can play at. there are other systems that are available. let's get them in there as a starting point. let's continue to look at the idea of getting these jets there over time. that would be my prescription. >> there have been proxy wars between the u.s. and russia before. i'm thinking right now of syria and the u.s. and russia would coordinate so as to not...

Maintain the principle of noninterference. so they shouldn't get caught up in proxy wars between the east and the west as some states did get caught up in proxy wars during the cold war, for instance. >> reporter: nelson mandela once put it like this. it is a mistake to, quote, think that their enemies should be our enemies. south africa also abstained from the u.n. vote, and president cyril ramaphosa has since blamed nato for considering ukraine's membership into the military alliance which russia is against. >> the war could have been avoided if nato had heeded the warnings from amongst its ...

Nuclear armageddon. and so nearly all the countries in europe were basically under the protection of one of these two nuclear umbrellas, the u.s., which was nato, or the soviet union which was the warsaw pact. and meanwhile, outside of europe, outside of the continent where those two world wars were happening, there were these massively brutal, destructive proxy wars playing out across the world in places like angela, nicaragua, afghanistan, in vietnam, with the two sides arming their proxies and funding different armies and coups, and despots and revolutions, and counter revolutions, and gene...

Should maintain noninterference and shouldn't get caught up in proxy wars between the east and the west as some did during the cold war, for instance. >> reporter: nelson mandela said it is a mistake to, quote, think their enemies should be our enemies. south africa also abstained from the u.n. vote. and the president has since blamed nato for considering nato membership which russia is against. >> if nato had heeded the warnings from amongst its own leaders and officials over the years. we are insisting, insisting there should be dialogue. >> reporter: south africa has historical ties with th...