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Hate map so this is real and it's dangerous and it's reckless for the media to use it. spoon so a lunatic read that your organization was described as a hate group and showed up with a gun in response? >> it was five years ago that that occurred based upon this map that cnn put up, that's a new version of the map it has all of us listed, you can go to the web site and it shows you how to get there, and this gunman confessed to the fbi that's where he got his list was from the southern poverty law center. but they want people to think that they're in the crows nest looking on the horizon for am...

Rounds of ammunition with the hit list that came off of the southern poverty law center's hate map. so this is real and it's dangerous and it's reckless for the media to use it. >> tucker: so a lunatic read that your organization was described as a hate group and showed up with a gun in response? >> it was five years ago that that occurred based upon thiss map that cnn put up, that's a new version of the map it has all of us listed, you can go to the web site and it shows you how to get there, and this gunman confessed to the fbi that's where he got his list was from the southern poverty law c...

>> and those statues didn't come about, many of them, as a fear tactic, to try to scare people because southern whites were upset about the changing culture. had nothing to do about the time of the civil war. >> and to celebrate the era of the confederacy and the war to fought to promote slavery. i mean i think that's the interesting piece of this and why i think probably we should be trying to preserve some of these statues because they are reminders of the bad old days. >> ahuh. michael, what do they represent? >> i think they represent, as was mentioned, they represent white supremacy, they...

Lincoln -- >> let me say. we are in a very, very emotional moment. >> we are. and that's why i wanted to have him on, by the way. it was my idea. i wanted to have the sons of the confederate -- >> and i'm not here to lecture because, by the way, i'm not a civil war expert. i have colleagues who are. i had to learn about it, of course. but this is the most important thing. the reason why those statues matter is not that anybody wants to erase the fact of the confederate states of america. it's part of american history. it's that those statues were put up, many of them, in the era of jim crow wh...

White supremacy, they represent standing up for segregation. they represent anticivil rights and many of these statues were put up, not at the civil war time but they were put up during the civil rights movement. they were put up during jim crow to represent that white supremacy and that antiintegration. >> and it's very similar. one would think right after the civil war that everyone around the south was running around with the flag. that is not so. i think the confederate flag we have now is the second, third or fourth iteration of the flag and it was the infantry flag. it had very little to...