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Than we've ever done. so all of our spending, the vast majority of our spending goes into that sector. so if it's one billion once or 700 million a year, it doesn't take a mathematical genius to work out that it takes about, what, 1.3 years for those to even out? so i completely see how that could go to the benefit of the sector. but it's more than just spend, right? the point is about the right structure that we have agreed with the independent sector. because we give the ip rights to those companies, the profitability of those shows sits on the balance sheets of lots of small and medium comp...

So if it's one billion once or 700 million a year, it doesn't take a mathematical genius to work out that it takes about, what, 1.3 years for those to even out? so i completely see how that could go to the benefit of the sector. but it's more than just spend, right? the point is about the right structure that we have agreed with the independent sector. because we give the ip rights to those companies, the profitability of those shows sits on the balance sheets of lots of small and medium companies. and while you see that as a plus, there are some people who say your approach to ip is one of ch...

So all of our spending, the vast majority of our spending goes into that sector. so if it's one billion once or 700 million a year, it doesn't take a mathematical genius to work out that it takes about, what, 1.3 years for those to even out? so i completely see how that could go to the benefit of the sector. but it's more than just spend, right? the point is about the right structure that we have agreed with the independent sector. because we give the ip rights to those companies, the profitability of those shows sits on the balance sheets of lots of small and medium companies. and while you s...

Because we give the ip rights to those companies, the profitability of those shows sits on the balance sheets of lots of small and medium companies. and while you see that as a plus, there are some people who say your approach to ip is one of channel 4's main problems. for example, lord grade, michael grade, argues channel 4 has to look at the ip issue because if you don't hold the ip to your biggest hits as a business, fundamentally, as streaming continues to dominate, that undercuts your endeavours. why do you not agree with that? i think it completely depends what the objective of running t...

The benefit of the sector. but it's more than just spend, right? the point is about the right structure that we have agreed with the independent sector. because we give the ip rights to those companies, the profitability of those shows sits on the balance sheets of lots of small and medium companies. and while you see that as a plus, there are some people who say your approach to ip is one of channel 4's main problems. for example, lord grade, michael grade, argues channel 4 has to look at the ip issue because if you don't hold the ip to your biggest hits as a business, fundamentally, as strea...