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Opponents of the healthcare law of playing politics. martha: the white house blamed two rogue agents they said for the irs scandal that targeted 500 conservative groups. but new testimony casts a lot of doubt on that. congressman chaffetz says he will not stop until he find out the truth. >> if we did what the white house wanted to us do. if we do with the ranging member suggests we do, this would be over. nothing here. don't do it. as far as i'm concerned it's over. members of the american postal worker's union

House tried to blame this on two rogue agents and that never was the case. bill: it seems to me you are trying to figure out who from washington was giving the orders. has it been confirmed that the chief legal counsel for the irs was in charge of this operation and is he not a political appointee from the white house? is that all true? >> there are 10s of house of irs employees but only two political appointees. the commissioner and the person in charge of the chief legal person. as you look up the food chain and where it went from lois lerner down the food chain how this came up through mr. ...

Albuquerque tea party was one of those two he talked about yesterday, one of the two that his name was on going back. that was an applicant who applied in december of 2009, still waiting over 1300 days now to hear back from the irs. whether or not they get their status. bill: what is wilkins history? why is he considered so suspicious by you and some others? >> carter hull, bill, implicated him directly and the reason why carter hull, william wilkins is very important and different even from lois learner or other bureaucrats at the irs, william wilkins is one of two officials that the presiden...

The senate finance committee under the democrats. he has worked for democrats for a number of years. he has a long, partisan democrat history. he has been a lobby it. he has been a big donor to democrat causes. that is because, he is a presidential pick. he now needs to answer because he is the direct link between the white house and the tea party targeting -- as well as possibly the obama campaign. involved in democratic politics. bill: will make everybody satisfied with the answers or lead us in a new direction. >> exactly right. bill: hofacre was not taking this laying down. she was microma...

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