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For a short period of time as i understand that if any other aides are going to be coming into the room. what do you think you will be talking about alone? >> i'm sure that the president will bere discussing that with secretary pompeo, and i'm sure the secretary pompeo well brief the president very carefully on the specific issues that they will want to raise in a group setting. then what might be helpful when they are one-on-one. probably, they will do some rapport building where they are together. they are not really alone. there's two translators. the room is probably mic'd up. i'm sure the...

Ryan and mitch mcconnell have said torture is illegal. so the question is what is torture? we kind of defined it as the using physical pressure to get information. it's ineffective to take out an entire terrorist network. the idea that torture is never useful, if someone is hitting you with a lead pipe to give you your atm number, you probably will give that up. but when you're talking about a larger segment of knowledge, rapport building is much more useful in the long run. >> can you talk about the way at that the united states government fights terror now? it seems as though when you talk a...

Over simplified. so it becomes either all of or all of that. the truth is resides as it usually does in the middle. talking to a detainee, doing the usually traditional interrogation of rapport building, of bridge building of reciprocity, gifting, whatever you want to call it, which was done the vast majority of times during the course of this program. >> and apparently it did gleam information. >> sometimes it works. sometimes it doesn't. this is my point. sometimes the enhanced interrogation techniques work. sometimes they don't to. say in absolute fashion that the interrogation program, as ...

Ideally when you're interrogating somebody, the way to do it, normally is what the fbi loves to call rapport building, build a relationship with the guy you're talk, to get him to come around and you're his friend. what we're dealing with here was a bunch of psychopathic, unrepentant killers. how long would it have taken to build rapport with ksm? and even if it could have been done how the hell how long would that have taken before he says oh, gees, i like you guys, i'll tell you everything. it's crazy. >> john, thank you so much for wk us. john rizzo absolutely fascinating what you said. wha...

Want information from rather than to beat them up. you're basically saying tactics like this don't work. >> well, professional interrogators all state -- and this is from the federal up to the local levels -- that rapport building with your detainee or your suspect is basically the best way to achieve the intelligence you want. if the point is to terrorize or frighten a person, yes, torture is a very effective way to do that. but the point of the interrogation effort carried out by the cia was to elicit intelligence in order to crush al qaeda. this is information we didn't have. if we had all ...