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You could argue they ought to broaden the base and do away with the loopholes and some of the deductions and preference that exist in the tax code today. most americans would prefer a simpler more clear and more fair tax code but you have to get the rate reductions to go with it, otherwise, most republicans are going to view it as a revenue increaser when most republicans view the problem, the definition of the problem being one of spending. so could we get tax reform? i think so. a lot of the good work that has been done by the super committee and others has produced some proposals out there ...

And there was a cut of the capital gains tax that helped stimulate economic growth there. the bush tax cuts, 2001, were not designed to be stimulus to the economy. a lot of tax credits in there. they weren't real reductions in rates. the 2003 rate reductions you had on cap gains and others, that gave you four years of strong economic growth that lasted until the democrats won the house and senate, and you knew those tax cuts were going away. >> here's the reality in terms of how americans feel about taxes and, indeed, how republicans feel about it, which seems to be at odds to where you are. m...

>> but the notion that tax cuts or tax increases somehow impact economic growth, we know historically that's simply not the case. president clinton raised taxes during boom times. president bush lowered taxes, did not spur great job creation. isn't that one of the falsehoods that's peddled in washington? >> no. if you take a look at when you cut marginal tax rates, the strong growth in the last six years of the '90s started the day the republicans captured the house and senate, didn't happen in the first two years. certainly didn't happen with the tax increase. and there was a cut of the capit...

Are going to involve taking trillions of dollars off the national debt, not just taking off 60 billion like we are now. >> what would you say with people presented with grover norquist's pledge about you must pledge to never consider raising any tax in any way. that would include gasoline taxes which could be part of the long term fix. that would include in his definition even changing some deductible items. limiting deductible mortgages for million heirs, that would be considered a tax increase under grover norquist's pledge he forces candidates to sign. would you urge candidates not to sign ...

Off 60 billion like we are now. >> what would you say with people presented with grover norquist's pledge about you must pledge to never consider raising any tax in any way. that would include gasoline taxes which could be part of the long term fix. that would include in his definition even changing some deductible items. limiting deductible mortgages for million heirs, that would be considered a tax increase under grover norquist's pledge he forces candidates to sign. would you urge candidates not to sign that pledge? >> no. i actually support the notion that he's talking about there. but i t...