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>> well, i think it is a great question -- >> thank you, i worked on it all day. >> but i also think he is not necessarily thinking about it in the way of mental health. i think the way he is sort of speaking to the media, he is acting as if this is something that is quote unquote behind him. and i don't think he is taking accountability or responsibility for his choices. the fact that he in any way engaged, which was publicly acknowledged, although it was not brought out into now in the media, he is not really aware of the real consequences to his behavior. he doesn't have good reality testin...

Here. >> and potentially, it is diagnostic, i haven't evaluated him. so i can't give a clinical diagnosis. the reality testing. how is it that he thinks he is above that accountability, that somehow in his magical thinking, this wouldn't come home to roost. and somehow, he is above and beyond the accountability for that behavior. >> ari melber, and dr. flemming, thank you both for joining us. coming up, what the bradley manning case tells us about the ed snowden case. and rewriting the minimum wage and the price of big macs. ♪

We're so un-surprised. >> the thing that really strikes me here the most, clinically, the fact that this is repetition, the facts that he had resigned from office, had all of that public attention. and knew in his mind's eye that he would be running this race and engage in this behavior. >> when you pay a public, humiliating price, even though you think the behavior is okay but you have paid that price and you want to get back into the public arena where they will make you pay that price again, that is what is so peculiar here. >> and potentially, it is diagnostic, i haven't evaluated him. so ...

Such a shocking thing. good point you raise. >> exactly. we're hard wired as human beings to obey legitimate authority figures. and what we need, you know, in terms of rebelling against undue influence and mind control is critical thinking and reality testing and having other people to bounce ideas over. if his brother said keep everything secret, i'm trusting you and the younger brother complied, it would be much more easy for him to do further indoctrinations or extremism, i think. >> thank you very much, steve. appreciate your time tonight. "outfront" next, we're going to travel across the ...

>> i doubt that, that that would be enough in and of itself. but i guess i'd like to comment on a very famous social psychology experiment by stanley millgram who did a phoney shock machine. he took people and within an hour individuals were electrocuting others just because somebody ordered them to. >> you know, it's funny, you said that, i had remembered that. i remember that now from psychology. i was shocking. such a shocking thing. good point you raise. >> exactly. we're hard wired as human beings to obey legitimate authority figures. and what we need, you know, in terms of rebelling agai...