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>> but why do they keep lying about it, christine? that's what i don't get. to rick's point, we don't know that the president lied about any of this to people who it matters. those questions were written for a reason. they were lawyered up and doctored for a reason, and by the way, i don't begrudge that. it would be silly to do it any other way, certainly given the disposition towards the modeasity of this president. he'd be foolish to do it any other way. his initial bomb bast was just that -- i'm going to sit down man to man with mueller. he was never going to do it. he wouldn't do it in civ...

Been breathless. >> i'm the picture of poise. he came out and said, he made it clear, that the president wasn't telling the american people the truth when he said he had no dealings with russia during the campaign. >> in this case, the sky is falling, because there's another plea deal. i think we have to wait and see how it plays out. i don't believe that michael cohen, what he says is gospel, and i don't believe anybody can credibly think that either. you say that mueller, well, he's a very important witness. so was manafort a very important witness, we saw what happened to that last week, wh...

>> in this case, the sky is falling, because there's another plea deal. i think we have to wait and see how it plays out. i don't believe that michael cohen, what he says is gospel, and i don't believe anybody can credibly think that either. you say that mueller, well, he's a very important witness. so was manafort a very important witness, we saw what happened to that last week, who knows how this is going to play out in terms of the credibility of michael cohen. >> two things berit. the reason mueller believes cohen isn't just that he feels it, right? it's because they have proof of communic...

Running illegal campaigns. there were topics like conspiracy, gun control, race alakes is to nasignificant. how significant is it? >> it's very significant. the reason mueller was probably not attached to this indictment is his mandate is attached to the 2016 election and mueller is a ving tim as a way of speaking because he's mentioned in the accuse of the campaign. there's reasons why mueller himself and his team was not involved in this particular case, this kblanlt, not yet an indictment. going forward the government probably considered it critical

The indictment then becomes just fact, i guess. but what is the other significance of him admitting that all -- that essentially paul manafort's theory of the case is factually correct? >> i think that's actually part of the pardon-proofing strategy that mueller has because now if for some reason mueller -- manafort was pardoned, those fa facts, which are part of a very public record and admitted to, could be easily used in state court for charges. i mean they wouldn't even need to do very much. there are double jeopardy issues, issues with state prosecutions coming after federal ones that wou...