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Benjamin and his family, but also there's like a record cover that my dad modeled for back in the '50s that i found in a box and all these little notes from my dad i found, i framed them and put them on this wall. it's nice for the kids to be able to see it and get a sense of their history. >> and your dad and your mom will be very real to them, right? even though -- >> yeah. >> -- they don't get to meet them. i mean, how important is that for you to have that shared experience? >> it's very important. i mean, you know, thankfully my dad wrote a book about growing up in mississippi, which is w...

Taken seriously by some of those high—minded critics? yeah, i think me particularly, because i think what some of the critics couldn't deal with was that i would do a record cover. and so in a way, it's my fault, and that...they felt i wasn't a pure enough painter, which is true, which is right. what is a pure enough painter? i mean, as you've said, you had the training... i always use frank auerbach as an example, who's an absolute... he was in the year before me at the royal college and who i would say was a friend. and he goes to work every day, he looks like an artist, he's got a proper ...

But i can't believe you're telling me you're not a proper artist. i'm a different artist. yeah. and what they didn't like about me was that difference. those critics didn't. .. ..couldn�*t understand why i would be common and vulgar enough to do a record cover. and i guess that... that was their problem. there were critics like brian sewell... 0h, brian sewell was a separate case. he was a vicious, nasty man. i mean, i know he's dead, but he was vicious. and he picked on hockney, kitaj and myself to attack. so, if he was reviewing somebody else's show, at the end, he would say something like...

You know, if there is an establishment and you work within it, it's good to be a member of it. let me ask you about the critics, because every artist, i guess, has to deal with reviews, with criticism. you have, ithink, found it difficult over the years to handle some of the criticism. and i wonder whether you feel there's a snobbery in the art world, and that pop art was never, or at least in its origins, was never taken seriously by some of those high—minded critics. yeah, and i think me particularly, because i think what some of the critics couldn't deal with was that i would do a record ...

I mean, as you've said, you had the training. i always used frank auerbach as an example, who's an absolute... he was in the year before me at the royal college, and who i would say was a friend. and he goes to work every day, he looks like an artist, he's got a proper studio with a lot of paint on the floor. he's a proper artist. i'm not, and i don't claim to be. i'm not an artist in that sense. i mean, i do work every day. i can't believe you're telling me you're not a proper artist. i'm a different artist. and what they didn't like about me was that difference. those critics didn't, couldn'...