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Sign that you're going to be serious about making the cuts in spending that includes entitlement reform, that includes most importantly, tax reform. you know, "the washington post" this morning, lead story, mortgage interest deductions on the table. no, it's not. you're not going to have a serious discussion about taking off the mortgage interest rate deduction for anyone. i don't care how much money they make. without putting that as part of a larger tax reform measure. and that's not what they're talking about right now. they're not at that level of seriousness. what we're talking about is a...

>> that's why i think we're going over the cliff. i don't think the republican votes are there. >> i agree. >> boehner is in the trickiest position in washington in the moment. >> absolutely. >> he is the man with the toughest job in washington because in the end pelosi's going to get the democrats. they'll do it for her. >> so michael steele, let me put you in the hot seat now. we talked about howard for a second ago. let's talk about tax increases. and let's talk about where the republican party goes from here. >> yep. >> the republican party has been accused of being the party of the rich, ...

>> so michael steele, i think that's inevitable over time even for medicare. >> yep. >> in an age where we're growing -- you know, living much, much longer. but howard dean obviously has problems with that. you and i would guess have real problems with raising tax rates to 39%. i think that's stupid. that said, how does barack obama get the nancy pelosis of his party? how does john boehner get the joe scarboroughs of his party to move from these positions that they have held for 20 years? to make a deal? this is a brave new world. i mean, it's hard for me to actually envision, as we get closer...

Republicans. john boehner said again yesterday, we're open to raising revenue, but we just won't go with a higher tax rate even on the wealthiest americans. that means closing loopholes, but that doesn't get us there. where do you see republicans, and then on the other side, the white house willing, at least, to move a little bit? >> well, i don't see them necessarily being willing right now. i think to the professor's point, they're sort of jockeying to see exactly where they can find that kind of give in the system. i think when this thing gets played out at the end, they're going to get rig...

And that all depends, you know, what they describe, that's a reality that gets somehow got 150 house democrats and convinced john boehner to go to the floor with only 80 house republicans. >> chuck, what's the number you're talking about in the "politico" report that you say is a little low? >> reporter: the overall cuts, the medicare number of $400 billion. it would be a surprise because $400 billion is already what dick durbin's talking about. that's the number that's out there. that number felt a little bit low from what i've heard. look, that's the -- that's what's going on right now, righ...