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The message, this might be bad for paul manafort the former campaign chair because rick gates worked with manafort, the charges have to do mostly with time from before manafort was anywhere near the trump campaign. is it bad for manafort? can it be bad for manafort but not bad for the president? >> it's bad for manafort but also could be bad for the president. gates outlasted manafort in the trump campaign. he worked on the inauguration as well. he has some longevity and legs that even paul manafort did not have so as he was closer and closer linked to the people as a apart of the inaugural co...

Back in may and roughly $3.5 million has been spent by other doj components, for instance, fbi agents working on the probe, not directly on mueller's team, but still working on the investigation. so roughly $7 million all told from may to september. obviously the budget was approved by deputy attorney rod rosenstein earlier this year and the department of justice is also reporting that the these figures have now been reported to the senate and house judiciary committees, john. but this is the first peek that we're getting into how much money has been spent. >> so $7 million. the mueller team c...

Point out that in the flynn court documents on friday there was no mention whatsoever about collusion with the russians during the campaign and isn't that at least for now still the bottom line that after almost a year and a half of investigation there's still no hard evidence that the trump campaign cooperated with the russians to interfere with the 2016 election? >> well, you don't lie unless you have something to hide and obviously michael flynn admitted now that he lied. so we don't have a clear case of collusion but as you just heard from karl rove, he made a deal and so he has something ...

Court documents on friday there was no mention whatsoever about collusion with the russians during the campaign and isn't that at least for now still the bottom line that after almost a year and a half of investigation there's still no hard evidence that the trump campaign cooperated with the russians to interfere with the 2016 election? >> well, you don't lie unless you have something to hide and obviously michael flynn admitted now that he lied. so we don't have a clear case of collusion but as you just heard from karl rove, he made a deal and so he has something more to offer, robert muelle...

Court documents on friday there was no mention whatsoever about collusion with the russians during the campaign and isn't that at least for now still the bottom line that after almost a year and a half of investigation there's still no hard evidence that the trump campaign cooperated with the russians to interfere with the 2016 election? >> well, you don't lie unless you have something to hide and obviously michael flynn admitted now that he lied. so we don't have a clear case of collusion but as you just heard from karl rove, he made a deal and so he has something more to offer, robert muelle...