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Brilliant film, "the cove." let's start with rick and get into this. what made you change from a supporter of the idea of seaworlds and aquariums to an opponent? >> well, i got tired of telling that lie about education and research. the fact is the show i was doing was nothing more than a spectacle of dominance, and, in fact, a form of bad education. that had a lot to do with it. >> jack hanna, who often talks about this. how do you respond to rick? >> real quickly, larry, can i just read -- i received a letter today from the member of the family. one sentence. can i take 12 seconds to read th...

Two dolphins into the wild. one of two ever fined by this institution. >> before we bring in jane and that had, you want to respond, rick? >> well, yeah. jack hanna, what can i say. he's a p.r. hack for zoos and dolphin amusement parks. what do you expect him to say. >> i'm very proud of it, too. >> larry: you call him abusement parks, rick. you think they're abused? >> i think it's abusive to have a sonic creature in a swimming pool, yes. that is abusivabusive. >> larry: we have two other panelists. let me take a break and come back. we'll bring them in. don't go away. so many irresistible wa...

>> larry: let's add our two other panelists to the discussion. jane, what do you make of rick and jack going at it it? >> i'm on rick's side. when you see animal exploitation, follow the money. larry, this is big business. the blackstone group traded on the new york stock exchange recently bought seaworld for $2.7 billion. this is about money. this animal in question, tilikum, the killer whale, was born in the waters off iceland, born free, and it was kidnapped, abducted in the early 1980s and for more than a quarter of a century it has spent its life going round and round in circles in a tank...

Other people that said on behalf of peta and the 2 million members of peta we'd like to see them released in the wild. i'm here on behalf of 180 million people that went to our zoos and aquariums last year that came there for education to learn more about the animal world and how to save it. >> larry: rick says the education part is a farce, for want of a better word. >> it's not a farce, larry. we grow and grow each year. we're going to continue to grow. it's educational, obviously, larry. people like rick and myself and other people, we go in the wild and see these animals, but 99.9% of the ...

We teach using positive reinforcement. we do not use food deprivation at all. nobody used that anymore. that was what was going on back in the days when rick was training back in the '60s before i started. that all changed in the '70s. there is none of that. i can't help it if he utilized the wrong methods, but he's still talking about things that he does not know anything about. he's not trained a dolphin in 30 years. >> larry: rick, isn't that a fair point? if you haven't done it in a long time, how do you know what they're doing now? >> i have done it and do it all the time. i have rescued ...