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But i do think there's a real message that can be gotten from teddy roosevelt because really what teddy roosevelt had to fight after decades of being laissez-faire, arguing that the government had a role in equality, the robber barrons, the trust that we're developing, he had to persuade them, the threshold argument he had to persuade them in order to regulate corporations and do the antitrust and do food and drug and get child labor laws through, and in a certain sense obama today facing similar kind of turmoil, the squeezing of the middle class, giant mergers, antitrust problems, very big si...

Period was away for the robber barrons to fight -- >> this relates to the earlier discussion of regulation and the logic of your argument. big business opposed banning child labor. many times in the period, and it passed congress, and ruled unconstitutional by a court, and there was an attempt -- >> well, it was the meat packers -- >> by the way -- >> they opposed the child labor, and that's the logic of the no regulation. your argument would lead us to a point where we could say let's put the kids back in the sweat shops again, because it's more expensive -- >> well, that will be next week. u...

The same time we know there's perceived and real taxpayer abuse and corruption in the entire country. >> you know, i grew up in new york, and i always love coming back here. new yorkers know there's no free lunch. i love california. i spent my whole life out there, but we believe we have a constitutional right to a free lunch so we've got to get it in our head that there's some connection between the money you pay and the services you get. yes, there's waste and abuse and that's 5% of the budget. basically you can only have services to reflect the amount of money that's coming in. two years ag...