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It was used to justify naziism in germany. romans 13 has -- but it was a misuse even of st. paul. but even with that said, for a christian to quote romans 13 over jesus of nazareth, as if jesus of nazareth doesn't exist, that, it seems to me, is highly problematic, and it's just flat-out run. it's unbiblical. it's unchristian, and it's un-american. >> father martin, you've had your own experience working in africa with refugees at different points in the past. you've seen these kinds of problems before. so what you're seeing on the southern border is familiar to you. >> sure. i worked in afric...

We're bidden to follow that. and separating children from their parents is not loving your neighbor. >> to the people in our audience who are not religious, have no religion, to atheists, they can come to the conclusion that this is an immoral act without any religious guidance whatsoever. and morality can be found in certain positions without any religious guidance whatsoever or any religious belief. how do you feel when you hear politicians using religion to justify their choices like this? >> well, it's -- it's immoral, and it's wrong. and it's a misuse of religion. the use of romans 13, fo...

Cameras into these facilities to capture these images firsthand. >> the other option would, of course, be transparency with the press. geoff bennett at the white house, thank you very much. >> reporter: sure. attorney general jeff sessions' own church is accusing him of child abuse for spearh d spearheading this policy. bringing church law charges, accusing sessions of child abuse, immorality, racial discrimination and, quote, disemnation of doctrines contrary to the standards of the methodist church. as members of the united methodist church we teeply hope for a reconciling process that wil...

Christians everywhere should be up in arms. what happened to bring us your tired and weak and we will make them strong? this is still the promised land." the catholic church has criticized the policy as immoral. let's talk to director of church mobilization for world relief of author of "welcoming the stranger," matthew sorrens. thank you for being with us. if attorney general jeff sessions was going to use the bible, would that have been the choice, romans 13, to use? there -- that's been used before to advocate slavery. >> yeah. well, romans 13 is part of the holy scriptures. i think it's im...

Number of times throughout the bible. >> god has ordained the government? i thought we had separation of church and state in this country. anyway, to be clear, that bible chapter right there that sessions cited, romans 13, was also used to justify slavery in the 19th century and reportedly used by hitler and the nazis in the 1930s. with me, julia ainsley, national security reporter. and nbc's jacob soboroff who toured one of those detention centers earlier this week. julia, news coming in just now that so far the government has separate 2d,000 kids from their parents? >> yes. that's right. 2,0...