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Circumstances such as these. >> yeah. do you think the charges are fair lisa bloom? >> absolutely. look we don't know what the evidence is but i'll take miss mosby at her word. she says she has hours of police statements hours of videotape. she has a medical examiner who says this was a homicide. and we can all see the video where freddie gray was taken into custody, shackled at her hands and feet. she said it was a rough ride. there have been multiple other cases in the city of baltimore, where suspects died as a result of a rough ride. the city has been hit with millions of dollars in judgme...

Because he was the one in charge of the car. in charge of that rough ride. that he knew that freddie gray was in the back begging for his life begging for some medical help and he wasn't provided with that medical help. and by the way, it's not a defense to say, we didn't give a dying man medical help or a catastrophically injured man medical help because we were called away to something else. that's not the way it works. police have an obligation to provide that medical care and they didn't give it to him. >> i want yo uhu to respond, chad but i have another question for you after that. >> fi...

Was he checking to see if he was okay? or was he fully knowledgeable that gray was in trouble and he did nothing? that's a hard decision. >> but she never mentioned the suggestion of what was being done with the van basically using the van as a weapon to injure him on the way there to teach him a lesson. depraved heart murder is a very specific statute, joey. it's not just a middle step between reckless behavior and -- >> very fair point. two points need to be made one, as for the indictment it's always always more difficult to find someone guilty than it is to indict because an indictment is ...

Again. you can't have justice by crowd. look there's a serious problem here. there is a lot of police abuse in some cities. but you don't respond to that by scapegoating individual policemen and overcharging them to make the crowd go away. that's not justice. >> and the problem is -- you know this -- if she overcharges, there's a possibility that none of these charges are going to stick. >> that's what happened in florida with angela corery when she overcharged george zimmerman and got an acquittal. what some prosecutors do they mortgage the future to produce a good result in the present. they...

The website is campnewjoy.com. >> you have to give cheryl 30 seconds. cheryl, you respond. >> that's why we reached the detente. let me just say this. i agree that no one should die as a result of a rough ride, bla, bla, bla. let me just say this about the criticism of the police officers. yes, whatever they -- if they did anything criminal, then yes, please prosecute them. but please do not paint all police officers with a broad brush. i have a 22-year-old son. he's in college now, but he grow up in new york between manhattan and brooklyn. he's never been stopped once by a police officer in n...