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Actually intervene is something else entirely. >> the argument could be made, this president had no experience up on capitol hill, he was a businessman, very successful businessman, developed all sorts of huge real estate projects, but he was dealing with the director of national intelligence, head of the national security agency, the fbi director, for that matter, if you believe all of these reports, as he would with others, other associates, you know, do me a favor, let's move on, forget about this. >> well, first, i think, you know, the history of president trump in the private sector was t...

This is the way he rose, president trump, has rose to power, are these suggestions about deeper conspiracy. the hoffsteader argument is there is a world controlling your fate to which you do not have the key and he offered himself as the populace savior who would defeat that conspiracy. but, at the same time, this is a man whose lawyer was roy cone. we don't have to go very far here back to mccarthyism. mccarthy rose to power, as most of us know, with the suggestion of wrongdoing, the suggestion of communist affiliation and wouldn't worry much about following up once he got a headline. this is...

President is a masterful counterpuncher. he has a unique ability to call things out as he sees it. to work around the media in the cases where he needs to do so. and to get his message in a way that's not filtered through everybody else. i think the other way -- there's a frustration for anyone who's a supporter of the president, whether in the white house or whether outside of the white house. these conditionual leaks -- continual leaks, the nameless, faceless sources running what i think is an orchestrated effort to smear the president. i think it's right that he pushes back on this. >> i wo...

Discrimination, refuses to settle, goes into this protracted multi-year fight, and it wasn't just that cone was his lawyer, cone was his mentor. that's how trump sort of learned to navigate the manhattan world in the '70s and '80s. and it's that -- that same model. that's why it's ironic last weekend when trump was accusing obama of wiretapping him that he called it a mccarthyism because literally that's -- donald trump learned this playbook from joe mccarthy's lawyer. >> james, my day begins with "the daily 202." thank you, i appreciate it. >> thanks, michael. i want to talk about this to a...

Shiny object. >> explain that this is from the roy cone playbook. >> roy cone was the chief counsel during the mccarthy hearings, witch-hunt in the 1950s. ultimately discredited, censured by republicans in the senate when they overreached. dwight eisenhower came after them. he flees washington in shame and disgrace, moves to new york, becomes a powerful lawyer, represents mob figures, he ends up connecting with donald trump in the '70s right when donald trump has been sued by the justice department for discriminating against african-americans in their housing projects. trump says to roy cone, ...