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And the treasury department is saying that it has 2500 different russian targets on the specially designated nationals and black person's list. those targets range from senior russian government officials to high net worth russian citizens. but what's puzzling to me is that these actions are still ongoing. why didn't the united states sanctioned these people and companies months ago? why were they holding out until now? we know that russia has used every weapon in its arsenal against the ukrainian people. so why is that the united states been using every economic weapon in its arsenal against ...

And why is the government still holding back and if so, why? i don't have the answers to some of these questions, but i do know that russia has not been economically damage to the degree that we were expecting at the start of the war. one month into the russian invasion, president biden declared that the russian ruble would, quote, be reduced to rubble. and yet the russian economy only shrank by 2.2% last. here in some ways, the kremlin has been able to prop up its own economy. yes, it's also received important assistance from dangerous allies like china and iran. national security council spo...

Degrade the russian military. we've got a way to go. >> so beyond the military industry, then looking at the russian economy more broadly, we know that the gdp and the ruble were insulated to a certain degree and didn't go down as much as many had predicted, but that may be hiding the true effect of these sanctions. so is russia really hurting economically right now? >> i think you have to look at the economy in two halves. the military economy, which is the kremlin will do everything it can to sustain in order to continue its war. there's also the civilian economy and we can expect the kremli...

Enormous costs both in loss of life and otherwise. but perceptions of people's own economic outlook aren't as negative as you would imagine given the also likely very accurate and sound data you started the setting the with from economists. this is why giving people a voice in these situations is easy for either side to really fall into the narrative of what their view is. from the western view, as you mentioned, sanctions have a consciouserstone of that policy. but if you look at some aspects of the russian economy, say the value of the ruble, certainly people's own assessments, we don't see ...

But perceptions of people's own economic outlook aren't as negative as you would imagine, given the also likely, very accurate and sound data that you started the segment with, from economists. i think this is why giving people a voice in these situations is so critical, because it's easy for either side to fall into the narrative of what their view is, from the western view, as you mentioned, sanctions have been really a cornerstone of that policy. but if you look at some aspects of the russian economy, say, for example, the value of the ruble, certainly people's own assessments, we don't see...