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And so on. so, you know, i think that it clarifies the choice for the american people. and i think it clarifies the choice in a way that is going to be helpful. >> paul ryan has been on this program five times. he's talked about these issues before. i have raised with him the fact that back when newt gingrich was on the program saying that the ryan budget and his plan to transform medicare was, in gingrich's words, right wing social engineering. something he backed off from. that a lot of republicans wanted to distance themselves, as they did, from the ryan plan. and this is what he said back ...

That taking on tough fights, like medicare, in your case it was collective bargaining and pensions for state employees that it has a real political cost. you faced a recall which you survived. blitco has an interesting analysis piece by john harris and mike allen and this is part of it i want to put on the screen for you. it's hard to overstate the risks romney is taking in making a choice that virtually guarantees a far-reaching debate about the broader role of the government and the entitlement state. simply put it's a debate republicans have almost never won when they've put it directly bef...

>> it's a little more complicated, though. let's bear in mind that you had the ryan rivlin program, alice rivlin was bill clinton's omb director, they came together on the medicare program. on the premium support proposal of paul ryan he's got an interesting ally in ron widen. we'll see how much pressure is put on ron widen this way. but what ryan says, and i think again the case can be made, that if you want to save medicare you have to do something. let's be clear, no changes for anybody over 55. people under 55 can stay with traditional medicare, or they can go to the premium support system...

People who rely on these benefits are going to get cut the first. they're going to be hurt the worst under a debt crisis. we're saying, if we fix this now, we can keep the current promise to current seniors and people ten years away from retirement. >> so what he's now saying on the campaign trail with mitt romney is that president obama will scare seniors about what they want to do about medicare, here is now a duo finally saying, let's solve the problem before change is forced upon the people who need these programs most. >> yeah, well, let's be clear. the president already has taken steps t...

Build -- >> bill bennett, let me get you in here. >> it's a little more complicated, though. let's bear in mind that you had the ryan rivlin program, bill clinton's omb director, they came together on the medicare program. on the premium support proposal of paul ryan he's got an interesting ally in ron widen. we'll see how much pressure is put on ron widen this way. what ryan says, if you want to save medicare you have to do something. let's be clear, no changes for anybody over 55. people under 55 can stay with traditional medicare, or they can go to the premium support system. the argument n...