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That in their portfolio. so there is a level of expertise where that can get accomplished. but what you have really is a very solid manager. and you look at the body of his work, the ark of his life as he's been involved in business. he's very much a manager. he leads organizations. he doesn't have the breadth of experience that a jim mattis had. and that's -- let's be frank, that's a difficult guy to follow. jim mattis was immensely qualified for the position. had to cross swords with the president and decided it was time to put somebody else there. patrick shanahan has to step in. he knows w...

"spider" marks and sam vinograd, a former obama administration official who is now a cnn national security analyst. good afternoon to you both. general marks, you are talking to active duty military personnel who are concerned. what are you hearing? >> right after jim mattis took over as sec def, there were two majors, they were sitting in this cube l and they have the picture of jim mattis and they have underneath it the sign that says, "watch over us." sadly, that is gone. this tremendous commitment he's made over four decades is now going to fade to the side and a new sec def will step up a...

Sec- sec-def. ash carter had been the deputy secretary and people thought -- they have the same fears, he's from the industry, an engineer, not somebody that was going to be in policy. but ash carter made a real point while he was the number two to go to afghanistan, around the world, to build up that portfolio that helped make the case to get that job. patrick shanahan hasn't done that. i don't think he's been down range to talk to the troops yet. so we don't know what we're going to get yet. we'll see. and we don't know how long he'll keep the job. >> malcolm nance, the moralee of the troops...

China. they have a marxist/lennonist regime. ceo, hollywood, media, universities. we -- any pick for sec def. >> i can't think of anyone who would take the job that i could recommend for it. >> bill cohen but he's not going to take the job either. >> laura: mine is jim webb. >> i like that. >> former assistant secretary of defense. he is my pick. and coming up, raymond arroyo and i are going to debate something that -- i love the hat. isn't that beautiful. plus more gross toys to buy kids this holiday season. must we do this? that's next.

>> it really is going to get worse before it gets better. i take your point, chuck, that the power of a shutdown -- >> i forgot there was one earlier this year. >> it was over a weekend. it opened up by monday. it's different when it's like two weeks. >> the 2013 shutdown, which was supposed to have destroyed the republican party, led to massive wins in 2014. >> whoa, whoa, whoa. >> obamacare. >> the website blew up on this -- >> stuff happened in between. >> that's the point. >> that's going to happen this year. a democratic presidential nominating process along with speaker pelosi wielding a...