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Face-to-face. the fact that it's -- there is an attempt here to make it secret doesn't solve the problem. what is even more concerning is the stories that are related to how this communication was going to happen, the notion that we would, as a u.s. government official have these conversations over a foreign government's communication system really shows a staggering lack of understanding of the place of the u.s. in the world, and really a remarkable lack of common sense. >> i want you to listen to house democrat ted lu, a congressman from california, and his thoughts on what should happen nex...

Eyebrow-raising elements of which you just listed off there are, one, that he met with the head of this russian bank, which the bank was one of the banks sanctioned by the obama administration. and then also the fact that on his security clearance forms, he did not disclose all of his contacts with russians during the transition, which by that time, it should have been fairly clear just using a common sense standard that those things should have been disclosed prior to getting a white house security clearance. >> the timing of this, lynn, during the election, when jared kushner was running the...