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Was the first to say no -- [ inaudible ] we're not paying bribes, et cetera, et cetera. he depended on roosevelt to break that graft up, wasn't he? >> you are talking about the northern security debt? >> glenn: yeah, i'm talking about -- yes. about 1904. >> 1904. >> glenn: i thought it was 1902. but roosevelt needed to come in and clean that up, did he, or not? >> when you clean james hill out of the picture or prevent him from consolidate the two railroads he had, you work against the one man who was able to achieve railroad building without -- the transcontinental railroad without federal su...

The guy, but the guy who built pennsylvania station was the first to say no -- [ inaudible ] we're not paying bribes, et cetera, et cetera. he depended on roosevelt to break that graft up, wasn't he? >> you are talking about the northern security debt? >> glenn: yeah, i'm talking about -- yes. about 1904. >> 1904. >> glenn: i thought it was 1902. but roosevelt needed to come in and clean that up, did he, or not? >> when you clean james hill out of the picture or prevent him from consolidate the two railroads he had, you work against the one man who was able to achieve railroad building without...

[ inaudible ] we're not paying bribes, et cetera, et cetera. he depended on roosevelt to break that graft up, wasn't he? >> you are talking about the northern security debt? >> glenn: yeah, i'm talking about -- yes. about 1904. >> 1904. >> glenn: i thought it was 1902. but roosevelt needed to come in and clean that up, did he, or not? >> when you clean james hill out of the picture or prevent him from consolidate the two railroads he had, you work against the one man who was able to achieve railroad building without -- the transcontinental railroad without federal subsidy. >> glenn: lynn, you ...

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