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Who stood up against obamacare, who wander what was going to happen with tarp, rolling this government forward with government spending, the ridiculous stimulus. i thank the good lord we had people speaking out. >> amen. i agree to that. >> you suddenly think that all these promises that didn't happen in the past are now going to happen with double border fencing, all these agents, when janet napolitano and barack obama are in charge, when chuck schumer wrote most of the bill, senator. you got be kidding me. >> they wrote the security piece and -- >> you think they wrote that bill? >> it was b...

Security piece will probably be inextricably tied. i guess the question, is, a, if the rhetoric around security is this a case of one step forward, one step back? >> no, i don't think so. i mean, i think that luke has touched on some of the dine mechanics that are in play right now when you look at the players on the g po p side that are coming together to carve out something. obviously, the border security piece is a major foundational proponent of any reform effort. the key i've taken note of is the human side of it. recognizing there are human beings here. families and individuals. what the...

Probationary status. you are here working legal and you are not on a path to citizenship. this is subject to "a" word, amnesty, which is a killer in times past. the problem the good stuff, stuff i described and there is lots of it in the bill is hostage to this kind of accusation. we are making exchange here. we will close the border. really going to do it. but the problem is measuring how well you have done the security piece. we'll see. >> republicans say that is what reagan did. >> he thought he was getting amnesty and turned to exchange. close the border, the border never quite got closed....

Terms of embracing gay marriage. this is yet another piece of that. it draws republicans out on the issue. unsurprisingly, karen, you think this gives republicans a little bit of a smoke screen to come to the table and bargain. michael from the washington post does not. he says if obama pushes a fast pass to legalization above other reform priorities, he could fracture the coalition which may be the point. the idea that the president wants us to fall apart for republicans for his own political -- >> i think -- >> for his next election campaign? >> exactly. >> for hillary in 2016. >> that's exa...

Planning on popping it during the boring moments and there weren't any, you're going to have to wait until the commercial break because there's more. vice president joe biden and paul ryan did just wrap up about 30 minutes ago. the obama campaign heading into tonight said they needed a strong performance from vice president biden tonight. by pretty much all accounts they got one. the fireworks tonight in this debate started almost from the very first moment. >> this benghazi issue would be a tragedy in and of itself, but unfortunately it's indicative of a broader problem. that is what we are w...