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>> the thing is, john heilemann, it's one thing to go native. you don't have to go native. i certainly didn't and certainly anybody who followed me in washington would say i was one of the continued of seven or eight agitators. but you just don't go out of your way to insult everybody in your party and say that basically you're the only one that is conservative and to be that self-righteous. >> joe, one of the things i like about you is you still haven't gone native even to this day. look. you come into the united states senate and you look at it as an institutional if you're a freshman and lo...

The floor time and time again and rubbing people -- it's one thing to oppose a bill. >> right. >> it's one thing to oppose a war. it's one thing to oppose a surge. but chuck hagel seemed to relish in the great publicity he was getting by rubbing president bush's nose in it, by rubbing john mccain's nose in it, by rubbing his republican colleagues' nose in it. he was acting self-righteous and like he was the only holy man in washington, d.c. i'm not, again, defending what the republicans are doing today, but i think whether you talk to carl or anybody else, this is the way washington works. i s...

In his chest, who understands. >> those are the same guys i was talking about at the top of the hour. >> i know chuck and i like him very much. chuck's got really short elbows. you know, it's not -- and i've had some republican senators tell me, it's not the way he voted or how he -- you know, he seemed to enjoy giving us an elbow in the back just a little too much. chuck, again, i'm pulling for chuck. i have from day one. he doesn't have clean hands in this. you know, he was for iraq. and then when he was against iraq, oh, boy, he was really against iraq. he became a moral rue sacrusade again...

Facebook. >> you're good. you could do one. >> mike: well, you could host the show, but you're not going to get to, okay? talk about the fact that people do sometimes put on this outward appearance in which everything is lovely, but they are he' not lovely inside. >> yeah, i think specifically the passage where jesus addresses in the gospels where he says the faracis, there will be a group of people who everyone thinks speaks for god and the outside of the cup amazing and shiny, but the inside is fifthy, in the old testament, god is not looking for external behavior, but a heart that loves him...

I don't think any one of his characters can showcase a conscience now. it is like watching mr. t work without a mow hawk. it doesn't make sense. it has beenen -- it has been engrained in my head. i haven't seen any of his work unless he created "alf" and" quantum leap." >> i have been told he did not. >> some of his most challenging work is his septum. >> will people care if the newsroom is realistic or not realistic. >> it is more interesting than the whole facebook story really was and people loved it. >> i can't believe they are doing the show. it feels old and quaint. it feels alls old as ...