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Giuliani, and ultimately directed by president trump. we have heard several ways of describing this shady, shadow operation, shadow diplomacy, rogue back channel. ambassador taylor, you have described what you encountered as the top diplomat on the ground in ukraine and i quote, highly irregular informal channel of u.s. policy making. you testified that the channel included ambassador volker, sondland, secretary perry, and as you later learned, the president's personal attorney, rudy t'giuliani. is that correct? >> yes, ma'am. >> both of you have explained that you grew seriously concerned whe...

Giuliani was going rogue here, right? >> no, i mean, look, rudy giuliani has had a very long relationship with the president. it's very clear that he was acting -- if not on his orders, as certainly with his tas id approval. and one thing we've learned when you step back to all of this, as we head into public hearings this week, we have learned so much about rudy giuliani that he was indeed running this shadow operation. and in some respects it wasn't even a shadow operation. it was right there in the open. but his fingerprints are on absolutely everything. what we're watching this week is are...

Mentioned bill barr. in your world, when you were with the state department, when you were a representative to the united nations, under what circumstances would the attorney general be involved in your dealings with other countries? >> quite a bit. it's not unusual to have the attorney general, the justice department involved in the interagency process. the national security council has representatives of the pentagon, the cia, the commerce department depending on what the issue is. but almost always someone from the, you know, attorney general's office would be part of it. i've sat in on man...

There and they didn't like that. they wanted to get rid of yovanovitch, who was standing up to the corruption. they wanted to get rid of people who had been replaced on the board of these oil companies. remember, bill perry was trying to put some of his own guys on that board. they're all trying to get back into the treasure trove of oil money. and frankly, they're using giuliani and the president to do it. and it didn't work but it might have worked, in which case that would be extremely dangerous. but this whole shadow operation that giuliani was orchestrating is going to all come to light a...

We know you can't do it. we know ivanka trump did it. i got a whole read out on it. >> you are literally hitting at the heart of what's wrong with this impeachment process. >> the hypocrisy of it. >> the democrats are assuming guilt before innocence. >> congressman, i'm saying if you're upset about what biden's son did and i think i'm one of the few people on television who said i don't like what his son did. i think it's wrong and i think the vp knows and that's why he wants to change the rules if he gets to be president. i'm saying the idea that this president was worried about it going on i...